General British politics discussion thread

what’s wrong with defending him? Is that not allowed?

Playing the victim now. This is all so obvious and done to death.

good for you. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion.

It’s such a shame that you always shut down anyone who doesn’t share it though.

I think most, or certainly my feelings, about Cleverly is if he did not stand up and call out Frank Hester for his racist remarks and advise the PM not to take his donations he has no right to call out racism in other parties. He is right on racism in the Labor party, but that is not about the party and more about the country as a whole. Seeing as he was quiet when racism was pointed out in his own party he should do the honourable thing and keep quiet now when talking about it in other parties.

I don't think that is a controversial thing to say or think.

Except that's not what she said, she responded to an article about Irish Jewish and treveller people experiencing racism by saying they experience prejudice and not racism because they have white skin. She was basically gatekeeping racism and invalidating other peoples very real experiences of racism.

And again he is right, when you see racism you need to speak out. So why did he and Sunak not speak out when it was apparent with a donor? Seeing as he plays the game on when racism needs to be called out and when not he should be ignored as he uses it as a political tool, instead of being serious about calling it out and addressing the problem.

Look at his quotes for the article,

"“The ethnic diversity at the top of conservative politics is a really powerful reflection of that entrepreneurial attitude that many migrant families have, and the fact that in the UK, if you work hard, you play by the rules, you pay your taxes and you do the right thing, you can really get on,” said Mr Cleverly.

“Whereas the voice I’m hearing from the Left is kind of like: ‘Know your place, stick with the Left-wing lines to take. Don’t be proud. Don’t be proud of this country’.”

Despite the Tories lagging up to 20 points behind Labour in the polls, Mr Cleverly said he “struggled to remember” a time when there were so many undecided voters at this stage of an election campaign, with just three days to go."

So he used racism as a stick to beat Labour with, but what about Reform?

"Labour has a problem with racism among its supporters, the Home Secretary has said.

In an interview with The Telegraph, James Cleverly said that his most recent experience of racism had been from the “political Left”, with their anti-patriotic rhetoric telling ethnic minorities they should know their place.

“I get criticism when I say how proud I am of this country, I get criticised by Left-wing voices, and it reminds me that they fundamentally hate this country, and they expect me to echo their opinion, and I don’t, and I won’t,” said Mr Cleverly, whose father is English and mother is from Sierra Leone.

The Home Secretary’s comments follow an election row over racist comments by some Reform UK candidates and supporters, including personal slurs targeting Rishi Sunak’s Asian heritage which left the Prime Minister “hurt” and “angry”.

Mr Cleverly said he did not think the Reform UK leadership had “gone anywhere near far enough distancing themselves from some of these distasteful opinions”.

Speaking during a break from campaigning in his Braintree seat in Essex, he said: “I’ve met Nigel Farage, and whilst I fundamentally disagree with him, I’m not suggesting that’s the kind of language that he personally would use.“"

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/other/labour-has-a-problem-with-racism-among-its-supporters-says-james-cleverly/ar-BB1pecZS?item=flightsprg-tipsubsc-v1a?season//

He was playing the game during the election campaign. He was trying not to upset those with the same views as those Reform candidates and campaigners as he wanted those votes and he used the "left" as scapegoat for those people to not feel bad about themselves and vote for his party.

If you think I have not read the article, I mean it spells it out,

"Mr Cleverly, a former party chairman as well as former foreign secretary, believed there was still time to woo Reform voters back to the Tories on the basis that they “instinctively” knew that backing Nigel Farage’s party would hand Labour a potential landslide victory.

He steered clear of talk about a “super majority,” but warned: “The point is that the most likely outcome if a lot of people vote for Reform is that Labour end up with a big majority and will do the opposite of what those voters want.

“In the conversation, they don’t need me to tell them that they know instinctively a Labour government would be completely at odds with what they want, and that even the best result for Reform would be maybe a handful of MPs, if that, but a big Labour majority with a leader who took the knee rather than backing the police.”"

I am not really sure what your point is, you are defending him for calling out racism in Labour when others are saying they do not take him seriously as he is not tackling the issue with the seriousness it needs because of his past history on the same issue. Does the fact that he did it to woo voters from Reform over change your opinion on him using racism to win votes?

I see you called out the poster for calling him a liar about racism. The poster clarified what he meant.

You then pivoted the discussion to what posters said about Sunak and his daughters when he was racially abused. Your initial point was that white posters on here should not tell Cleverly about racism and your next point was that we were excusing abuse of Sunak. The point on both these politicians are the same. They allowed the racists to fund their party, they have very little sympathy when those racists turn on them because they are not white.

You are out here defending him by saying he is right to avoid calling out racism in his own party but to call it out on the Labour party to try and win Reform votes and we are not allowed to judge him because we aren't from a minority. You seem to have also agreed he was wrong to not call it out when it was Hester though. I think I have that right. Interesting way to see it.

End of the day you can't come crying about bee stings when you are the one who started shaking the nest.

I know you didn't say that. Again I am not sure what you are still arguing. You yourself have said he was wrong to not call it out and ask for the return of the donations from Frank Hester (I believe, happy to be corrected).

Where we are at the moment is you seem to think he should get a pass because he is from a minority and the white people on here should not be able to call him out on it. Seems like most disagree with you, even when you shifted the goalposts and you aren't really engaging with the rest of the interview I pointed out and not just the parts you want to highlight.

The part of the interview where he downplays Farage's role in the racism in Reform and looking to call out Labour for racism he has received on the left as he is looking for the Reform vote to switch to the Tories for the election. It was a ploy to win votes for the election and not a serious bid to tackle racism as he has shown he is very much ok with it if it is done by a donor for the Tories.

You keep coming back to the fact that he accused the left of racism, as if it seemingly needs to stick to people on here that lean left.

The funny thing about that interview as well, he criticises the message from the left to him that they are saying he should stay in his lane and repeat the party lines. Its not like he has been doing that and was doing that for the Frank Hester story for the Tories…imagine that, a hypocrite politician accusing the other side of exactly what he was doing. Glad we are done with this, it was just going around in circles.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/16/priti-patel-to-enter-conservative-leadership-race-sources-say

lets hope the mad one succeeds and consigns the Tories to history.

Well I said it anyhow

The tories can't take back the reform vote while they're both in opposition

Reform can say whatever they like to keep their support

This analysis is only partially correct. Most of these African Asians were indeed empire lakkies operating in the no man's land of not quite black so in elevated and privileged administrative positions. However the majority ended up in Britain after the expulsion by Uganda in the 70s. They arrived with not a pot to piss in and they actually exemplify a certain kind of Tory success story, they are the Ubber self made man. They are now performative Tories displaying their purity of belief in order to be accepted in a hostile party appealing to a hostile electorate. They are possibly the most extreme ideological Tories only bettered by the outright Fascist wing of the party who actively despise them.