Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

To ensure fairness and inclusivity there should be man, woman, transman and transwoman category for all sports.

Well no. The Male and Female categories are sex-based categories. There are no such sexes as transman and transwomen. That would make just as much sense as adding transman and transwoman to age or weight categories (i.e., none whatsoever, since they are clearly not subsdivisions of those categories, just like the sex category)

Surely the simplest and most effective approach is to make the male category an Open one, and restrict the others (junior/female etc)?

That way, trans women, and any trans men who are over the permitted female levels of testosterone, could participate in the open category, as indeed could any women who wished to measure their performances against those of the men.

What objection could there be to that?

Surely the simplest and most effective approach is to make the male category an Open one, and restrict the others (junior/female etc)?

How would you feel about an open category for boxing, MMA, wrestling etc?

My main objections to that, you would see across the board males performing to a higher level than females. That is why we have categories based on sex right now.

This is a confusion between "better at one thing" and "just better".

There’s no confusion, it’s a belief grounded in men’s supremacy, and the biggest disadvantage women have in sports isn’t anything to do with their physiology. It’s simply the fact that they’re women, and the perception of sports as an unfeminine activity for women is by far more influential than any reach about failure to acknowledge the difference in hips as if that were actually a factor which contributes to the disparity in equal treatment.

Far more influential is the lack of maternity protection in women’s sports, which has to the best of my knowledge at least, never been something which men have had to consider, which is why they didn’t, until they had little choice but to do so as they couldn’t just declare that because nobody gets maternity pay and leave and so on, they aren’t treating anyone unfairly, while knowing full well the disproportionate impact it has on women -

https://mse.dlapiper.com/post/102icn5/maternity-pay-in-sport-a-wake-up-call

Is it also discrimination to not allow able bodied people to compete in the Paralympics? The main criteria to compete in the female category is that you be a female. If you aren't, you don't qualify. Just like events that are also classified by age and weight, it's not discrimination to disallow those who don't fulfill the criteria. A heavyweight boxer fighting against a featherweight wouldn't be fair or safe, likewise an adult competing against a child. These things, as well as sex based categories are all based on biological realities, not feelings and identities and have nothing to do with headscarves or clothing items.

Man who is not even athletic or involved in sports is an expert on being a female athlete and how their disadvantage is all in their little woman brains and not their physiology at all. Who cares what Martina Navratilova or Sharron Davies have to say, OEJ is now here, and the answer to everything is to just get rid of women's sports and let the men in. Lol

Nail on the head. It is all to do with men planning these sports and games, and that women just don't put in enough effort to REALLY win and compete.

If only they listened to OEJ, they might get that extra bit of strength to really show up to the spot.

Isn’t the top weight category in boxing generally unlimited? So IF someone from a lower weight category wanted to go against the heaviest boxers, he could do that. As long as the protected weight categories also exist, where’s the problem?

(Of course the reality is that this would pretty much not happen, for the same reason that trans men tend to remain in the female category to which they belong by sex) but if they wish to they can.)

Well woman is a woman and transwoman is a transwoman. Is it simple enough?

What? A long winded tangent about knitting and pussy hats? Not really mansplaining, more like jumping the shark completely

I know. You seem to think I’m suggesting ONLY an open category for everything. I’m not. Nor am I saying it should be obligatory for all.

The reality is that women won’t usually choose to play tennis against a man (for instance) but if the male category is open, trans women can take part without having to declare themselves to be men.

So IF they are genuine about their reasons for wanting to be in the female category, ie that it’s about seeing themselves as female, not about hammering easy competitors, the open category is a good compromise.

Agreed. In general, it's difficult to design an experiment when the subjects are human, there are all sorts of factors that could play into athletic performance that are challenging to control for. However, as others have pointed out, there's no need for experiments. Just take any sport like athletics, rowing, weightlifting, etc, and compare the historical results ofor males and females. The Dublin marathon is a good example - over 40 years on the go and the overall winner has always been a biological male.

OEJ is correct in that there are lots of underlying reasons for discrimination against female sport regarding funding and promotion - they're nothing to do with this thread though.

Able bodied athletes aren’t prohibited from competing at the Paralympics.

Aren't they? What's the below about then?

https://www.paralympic.org/athletics/classification

The groupings of athletes by the degree of activity limitation resulting from their impairments are called 'Sport Classes'. This, to a certain extent, is similar to grouping athletes by age, gender or weight.     

CLASSIFICATION IN PARA ATHLETICS

To be eligible to compete in Para athletics, a person must have an eligible impairment and meet the minimum impairment criteria set out in the World Para Athletics Classification Rules and Regulations.

There are 10 eligible impairment types in Para Athletics: eight physical impairments as well as vision impairment and intellectual impairment.

I am sure we could do large scale research on winning times over any distance in Olympics and World championships over the last 20 years to determine that men do in fact have on average a 10% advantage on women competing in the same distance races, why even continue this thread when common sense dictates that there has to be events based on sex if we are to find out who is the best from either sex, not to do so would result in women never winning any olympic or world champion event in the future and I dont think anyone other than the extreme trans advocates wants that, biological facts will always trump emotions when it comes to individual physical sports.

Wheelchair basketball? Isn't that like saying horse riding is unisex therefore olympic sports are gender neutral?? LOL