Junior minister refused communion - ‘excommunicated’

The pope is responsible for every priest, nun or brother's actions?

The church has addressed, accepted and paid compensation to a lot of victims. Much more needs to be done.

The father should be able to have as much of a say as the mother.

Yes, I care to address that issue … Abortions where contraception was or was not used is still wrong.

It's wrong in your opinion. You are not the world expert on women's experience I am guessing from your posts

It is a right in mine. I get to make the choice for my body. As does the ten year old girl raped by a man. Are you really that ignorant to say abortion in that case would be less preferable to forcing a raped child give birth?

Now stop mansplaining and religious brushing women's choices to women. It's easy to see you never will be in a position to understand how mens abuse impact women daily. Yet women are still expected to adhere to their wants about their own body. Disgusting isn't even close.

So, standing up for the unborn is a bias?
Or maybe it's common decency and a tendency to want to do what's right.
I do not have the right to condemn. Or to judge. I am simply repeating the church's teaching and viewpoint on the matter.
And now that you are on that point, you do not have the right to condemn nor judge anyone for having a viewpoint that doesn't fit with your own narrative.

So, all-in, no objections to any abortions for any reason the mother might have?

Women have a right to choose to continue or end a pregnancy. The pregnancy is dependent on this choice. A being which can't survive outside the womb does not trump the woman in front of you.

The fact you are putting a potential person above one in front of you speaks volumes to your lack of understanding of women and equality.

not agreed and the association of Catholic priests of Ireland (for probably the first time ever) are on my side on this OP issue

Simply addressing comments put to me by way of reply.
Some have even questioned why I did not answer specific points.
Should I ignore them?

Not a bit bitter over a choice people made. Just amazed at the sheer ignorance of some people not realizing that actions have consequences.

It's her personal decision, it's frankly none of my business. Free to have an opinion or be upset if it's your partner or whatever but that doesn't mean you should have a right to prevent it.

Agreed.

Also, take a look at this article: https://www.catholic.com/qa/apart-from-abortion-are-there-other-sins-that-incur-automatic-excommunication

Note the following:

Automatic excommunication for abortion (CIC 1398) applies not only to the woman who has the abortion, but to “all those who commit this crime with knowledge of the penalty attached, and [this] includes those accomplices without whose help the crime would not have been committed” (Evangelium Vitae 62).

Also, the following:

No one is automatically excommunicated for any offense if, without any fault of his own, he was unaware that he was violating a law (CIC 1323:2) or that a penalty was attached to the law (CIC 1324:1:9). The same applies if one was a minor, had the imperfect use of reason, was forced through grave or relatively grave fear, was forced through serious inconvenience, or in certain other circumstances (CIC 1324).

If it's nobody's business, why is it a matter for the law?

You didn't answer the question, what say should the father have? Do you want him to be able to force the mother to carry to term?

So you incorrectly claiming people are using abortion as contraception is actually immaterial.

Of course a lot isn't all or most. I never intimated as much.
However, they are engaging. Kicking and screaming as you put it. But they are engaging.

So, lets get back to the point from the OP.

Or, equally significantly, force her to have a termination so he doesn't have to pay maintenance.

Why should you care what I have to say about what say the father should have? You have indicated your stance to suggest unless they can carry the child for 9 months, they should have no say.

I never said they represented hierarchy but they surely represent his peers?
why are they wrong and this individual correct (not on the pedantics of abortion and mortal sin ) but on the treatment of the TD in the church, who like the vast majority of catholics in Ireland voted yes in the referendum.

As for the OP, I actually spend a while trying to get disassociated from the Catholic church using the old defection process. They unfortunately changed cannon law though so people couldn't use it anymore.

I wonder is this perhaps a new way of 'getting out'? Could I email a bishop and tell them I fully support abortion up to full term (!) to get excommunicated I wonder?

Take a look at the below link. The ACP are not singing from the same hymn sheet as church teaching.

https://www.reuters.com/article/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pope-warns-catholic-politicians-who-back-abortion-idUSL09563188/

You are making assumptions now. Well done.

Equating the catholic church to Nazi Party is reprehensible. There is no equivalence.

I'm pointing out how ridiculous your handwashing is. You're excusing paedophiles and murderers and those who kept the paedos and murderers safe from justice for, literally, a hundred years. The Nazi party never killed any Jews, only their members did" is exactly what you're saying, only using the church instead.

I have no disdain for women. None. What you are doing is living in denial. No one has right over another.

More hypocrisy. Nobody has the right over another, yet you think you have the right over what women do with their own body. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so disgusting.

It may have been untrue in the past. But not now.

More handwaving away and pretending all is rosy in the garden. "In the past"……you make it sound like it was centuries ago…..the blasphemy nonsense was removed from the constitution around the same time Covid appeared. You're ignoring the countless other influences they still have on culture and life in Ireland. And you're also glossing over the fact that there are huge swathes of the church-going population (including everyone in the church hierarchy) who want it all brought back. Hell even yourself, I'd wager, would welcome back the 8th amendment, the blasphemy laws, gay marriage ban and plenty of the rest.

All available.

So I can buy alcohol before 12:30pm on Sundays now, can I?

No. The church exists to preach the good news of the gospel. You don't like that. The church is there to advise the faithful.

LOL…….Advise the faithful on………what? How to live their lives, that's what. And chastise the infidels for not living the way they want them to…….aka telling people how to live their lives.

Are they dragging you to church? If not, you are exercising your option to not be catholic. Observance of Sundays and Holy Days of obligation are mandatory. For Catholics.

They still count me as a Catholic because I can no longer avail of an option to remove myself from their stats. They did this deliberately, because people were leaving in their droves. Fewer members = less power. They STILL want to control all of the sh1t they controlled for decades, it's just that they can't. They want to force everyone to be Catholic.

Here we go again. It all boils down to this.
Have you heard of a recent case of a priest getting moved around and covering this up?

Ah it hasn't happened recently, has it not? Well then, that's okay, all's forgiven so. What's the time limit then? At what point does it not become relevant because it was too long ago? Is ten years ago count as recent? Y'know, when Pope Francis brought a known abuser with him to the Holy Land? And do you hold those who get an abortion to those same term limits or are you a complete hypocrite about that too?

Also, you need to learn how to quote properly. Replying to your hypocritical drivel is enough of a pain in the hole already without having to do your admin work for you.

Not a supporter of them myself but think this Fr Gabriel Burke is going a bit off piste here as far as dem oul sins are concerned .

The ACP , Association of Catholic Priests , have made a statement about this .

Apparently they feel its hypocritical after looking the other way for years when desperate women had to travel for abortions or suffer to now be excommunicating parishioners willynilly .

That the matter was something to be discussed pastorally and left to a person's own conscience . And that they did not own the Eucharist so did not have the right to decide who should and should not receive it .

Not only that but Pope Francis doesn't want people excommunicated either .He said in 2021 he wants people " dealt with pastorally " without public condemnation , if people not in line with church teachings .

All very good and enlightened from the church so far you say ?

Except Fr Gabriel ...He says that the Pope doesn't know what he is talking about :) that abortion had not been introduced when the Pope was a Bishop in Buenos Aires And that the junior minister had automatically excommunicated himself when he voted for abortion legislation , something that is beyond the Pope, Canon law , excommunication ..fully automatic!

Have to say this is a hilarious turn in the proceedings .

The priest is going off on his own little journey here it appears 😁

Its' in yesterday' s Irish Times but had to share the story in case its behind a paywall , and link doesn't appear to be working today .

Ah here we go ..

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/07/14/priest-group-condemns-refusal-of-communion-to-cork-td-who-supported-repeal-of-eighth-amendment/

You, sir, are a colossal fucknugget.

I do not have the right to condemn. Or to judge.

And yet, you did just that in the previous sentence when you said……."Or maybe it's common decency and a tendency to want to do what's right". That's you condemning and judging people for having a different viewpoint that doesn't fit with your own narrative.

When you tell a woman pregnancy isn't potential and she has delivered live and dead babies, that is ignorance. But as you appear to believe you have the right to tell women what to do why should I expect less you literally proved my point.

All pregnancies are potential and any woman who has been pregnant you don't ever take it for granted.

I really hope your kind are on the decrease and that eventually equality and equity become a reality because I hate that yet another generation of women have to put up with the same level of abuse and bullying.