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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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    #30422
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Harry played the majority of games cause Ross was injured.



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    #30423
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122383951#Comment_122383951

    Moloney's really a (admittedly much better) Aly Muldowney style player. Great system fit and great distribution, but lacking the physical tools for a top second row. A few years ago he was singled out as emblematic of Leinster's lack of physical bench impact in big games (despite, as being pointed out above, him not exactly doing much wrong in those games) and ultimately that's for a reason. He was a great club servant and a Billy Holland quality player, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    However, a fully fit (admittedly a big caveat) Snyman makes the team ahead of him for a cup final ten times out of ten. McCarthy-Ryan-Snyman is undeniably better than McCarthy-Ryan-Moloney if you're choosing a team to play LAR or Toulouse tomorrow.

    At the same time, Snyman is a luxury player. He's a great asset in a dominant Leinster attacking system, but is he the first guy you'd want out there defending a two point lead in the seventy-eighth minute when you're under the pump? Arguably not. But he does stuff, even at international level, that Moloney couldn't do at URC level.

    Sig.png



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    #30424
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Snyman is not very likeable. Good players but a plonker, imo. Hopefully, he contributes positively.



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    #30425
    FtD v2
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭FtD v2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384433#Comment_122384433

    Don't think this is fair, or where "plonker" is coming from.

    We, as Irish fans, didn't like the hit on Casey or the immediate high fiving etc after it, but it's stuff that happens in the game routinely.

    He's not exactly an outspoken guy and hasn't really been overly involved in controversy in his time in Ireland for him to be perceived as not likeable IMO.



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    #30426
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,226 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384037#Comment_122384037

    What do you want an example of? You want me to give you an example of why a player who is an impact sub for the current world champions is better than a player who has never gotten an Ireland cap?

    Yeah, I have no examples. You're right I take it all back. Next season when RG comes on at 55mins, we'll collectively sigh and wish Moloney was coming on instead.



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    #30427
    clsmooth
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Snyman is a sight to behold when he gets into a bit of space and can get his hands free to offload. He’s also shown an ability to score from a few metres out this year on numerous occasions with Munster. No idea what level his 2nd row basics of rucking, mauling and scrum power are like (maybe someone else can comment on that?) but the flashy stuff definitely seems best suited to a role off the bench.



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    #30428
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,431 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384244#Comment_122384244

    He theoretically can do things, the reality tells a different story. Does the chance of an amazing offload outweigh being able to call the lineout, play for a full 80 if needed, be an integral part of the passing attack?



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    #30429
    conquestscarer
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭conquestscarer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384463#Comment_122384463

    Yes it does. The reason why Moloney wasn't selected for the business end of the season, he's just not big enough for the top level unfortunately.



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    #30430
    thePigeon_
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭thePigeon_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384133#Comment_122384133

    By "move on" I mean deprioritise.

    We've 4 senior 10s right now and you think the guy who'll play the most minutes next year is the only one we didn't bring to South Africa for the URC semi..

    I'd start the season with a view to splitting minutes between Frawley and Prendergast. We've 6 games before the Autumn Internationals and Prendergast looks likely to miss rounds 3 and 4 with Emerging Ireland anyway.
    Start Prendergast in rounds 1 and 2. Frawley in rounds 3 and 4. Either/or for 5 and 6.

    Then there's the AI's which they'll probably both be away for, before coming back with another 3 URC and 4 CC games before the 6 Nations gets going. I'm not suggesting we go half the season before making a decision on the 10, I'm saying we give two players a proper opportunity to compete over who's starting and who's benching.

    There'll be additional minutes for at least one of Ross/Harry and possibly both but I think it's time for Leo to be more ruthless. Harry and Ross had the lion's share of minutes at 10 this season, with Harry also being in the 6 nations squad, and where that ended up was Harry watching the Bulls game from 10,000km away and subsequently both of them watching the SA series from 10,000km away.



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    #30431
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,431 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384609#Comment_122384609

    Are you saying CC semi finals and finals aren't big games now?



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    #30432
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384633#Comment_122384633

    But Moloney didn't play the final this year? And he was only in the semi cause Ryan wasn't available.



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    #30433
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,431 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384677#Comment_122384677

    Just going to ignore all the previous years then?



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    #30434
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,285 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384449#Comment_122384449

    I wanted an example of a huge performance from Snyman which you can point to which people can think of with Moloney

    A big 80 minute performance.

    Not sure what the last part fo the post is about, I said he was an impact sub but coming on after 5 mins he isn't



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    #30435
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384696#Comment_122384696

    I'm not ignoring them, but it does rather seem like it was identified as an issue which is why they've gone out and got Snyman and let Molony go. When they had other options he was not selected.

    I like Molony and he was a great squad player, but he was absolutely our weakest forward in all those big matches that he did play in.



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    #30436
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,285 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384615#Comment_122384615

    Frawley won't be available til probably European games as he has been in SA

    Predergast will have extended summer as well and will probably just go straight into the the EI tour if he goes

    Not sure why you think it is so relevant the location of Harry for the Bulls game. They don't bring the entire squad and Frawley was clearly going to be the number 23 on the bench.



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    #30437
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384714#Comment_122384714

    It was our most important game left in the season, and if anything happened to either Frawley or Ross then Prendergast was coming in because he actually travelled. And was on the bench in the QF too…

    All logic suggests that Prendergast is already ahead of Harry Byrne.



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    #30438
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,285 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384737#Comment_122384737

    That's not really logic.

    It's taking very little information and getting the answer you wanted in the first place.

    I will wait to see how they line up next season before I say who is behind or in front.

    In terms of H Byrne, people seem to have taken the Ulster game, blamed him for the loss when it wasn't his decision to take the kick, it was Ryan's and decided that is why he didn't travel.



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    #30439
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384749#Comment_122384749

    The information is that 2 or 3 other players were ahead of him in all of the most important games to end the season. 2 in the CC knockouts for certain and 3 in the URC knockouts.

    He might come back from that and start off the season amazingly, but there is no other takeaway from the end of season matches other than he fell to 4th choice. That is the starting point. He didn't travel because he was the 4th choice 10 - why else would he not have travelled?



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    #30440
    Ben Bailey
    Registered Users Posts: 664 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384711#Comment_122384711

    … they've gone out and got Snyman and let Molony go.

    This seems to indicate that, if Snyman was viewed purely as a replacement for Molony (which is not necessarily the case), the coachs preferred Snyman. Molony's departure to a 3 yr contract with Bath might infer his knowing that his role would largely be as an 'impact sub' and Snyman's recruitment was as a replacement in that role. We'll have to wait & see if Snyman turns out to be a better player in that role. Fair to say that he'll have to go some before the Leinster faithful think he's worthy.



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    #30441
    Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3
    Registered Users Posts: 587 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    Andy Farrell calling for Frawley to play more 10. Agreed.



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    #30442
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384788#Comment_122384788

    He's not a direct replacement obviously as he'll never play as many games. Snyman is more a replacement for Jenkins really, but I also think our top 3 rotation was pretty clearly Ryan/McCarthy/Jenkins by the end of the season.

    It's a risk given his injury record to be honest as if he's not available we are looking at Baird or Deeny playing second row in a big game.



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    #30443
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,431 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384810#Comment_122384810

    Have to think that Jenkins superseding Moloney was directly related to playing La Rochelle. Moloney had no issues playing Toulouse or anyone else



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    #30444
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384825#Comment_122384825

    He superseded him against Toulouse in the last final as well. Albeit as we completely changed our gamestyle.

    Molony is a great squad player, but I think some people are making him out to be more than he was. He was a weak link in the two LAR finals and there is a reason he was never within a sniff of a cap really. I think saying he lacks something at the top end is perfectly fair.



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    #30445
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384749#Comment_122384749

    That's not really logic. 

    It's taking very little information and getting the answer you wanted in the first place.

    And similarly, it’s not too long ago you were claiming Harry Byrne was 2nd choice for Ireland after 33 minutes in the 6 Nations, when there were injuries to Ross Byrne and Frawley at various stages.

    Imo, you’ve a bit of a blind spot when it comes to Harry Byrne. It think it’s relatively clear he’s slipped a good bit down the pecking order.



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    #30446
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,796 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384749#Comment_122384749

    Which Ulster game are you talking about here?

    It was Harry Byrne who failed to find touch with his penalty at the very end of the game in January when Ulster won. Can't blame anyone other than Harry Byrne for that.



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    #30447
    El Vino
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭El Vino


    RG could absolutely be the difference maker in a European Cup knock out game. I agree he is not great when on from the start but his impact off the bench in the world cup semi final won the Boks a game they were in deep trouble in. Leinster don't need much to get over the line, most times their replacements are not as good as the starters, you could argue he raises the level but only for 20-30 mins.



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    #30448
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,285 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122384767#Comment_122384767

    As I said I will see at start of next season what the setup will be

    If Predergast is ahead then it is some jump for him in a short space of time. I still don't see Leinster using Frawley as a 10.

    In reality the performance of Harry last season I would of had him ahead of Ross, Ross had a good game v La Rochelle but not great rest of season.

    Long term a combo of Harry/Sam I think will offer more to Leinster.



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    #30449
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385238#Comment_122385238

    Yes, it is a new season with new opportunities and the dynamics change. But I'm not arguing where you or I would have had him, the Leinster coaches very definitively had him as fourth choice at the end of the season. There is no if on this, Prendergast jumped ahead of him. Harry may get back ahead in the new season, but when 3 flyhalves travel for the most important remaining game in the season and you are left at home healthy, then you are fourth choice.

    I agree that Harry would be a better backup than Ross if they both slip down the depth chart. However, with the season he had, if that was not enough to convince the coaches to back up and instead they all but discarded him I don't think he has much chance of anything else.



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    #30450
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,285 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122385268#Comment_122385268

    Two flew, Frawley is an impact sub who covers a number of positions and as we seen all season Leinster didn't start him at 10 unless they had no other option.



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