Tour de France 2024 - this time it’s personal

It's not just Vingo that's been affected by crashes - really most of the visma tour team has been affected or is out. Peak WVA pushes the train that bit further yesterday, Kuss to take over from Jorgenson means Jonas isn't going as far. So really hard to know what would happen without the spring crashes.

Pog has changed coaches and seems to have addressed those big kj days - very noticeable him stuffing his face during the podiums/ interviews this year compared to other years.

As well as nutrition, the top teams have started going further with altitude training. The Performance Process/ Escape Collective has done some stuff on this. Starting at a lower height, moving to higher and/or using an altitude tent at altitude. Nothing would surprise me, but if anything it's financial doping by being able to afford all the time at altitude is probably the biggest factor.

I get the Sky thing but Jumbo did the exact same thing after them and they don't get the same criticism as Sky did for some reason.

UAE have shown themselves quite capable of doing the sky/ postal train several times this tour. As said, there's not one dominant team now with UAE and Visma, but also both teams are prepared to mix it up with other tactics.

Blind faith in Sam again today, needs a few things to go his way but 90/1 I’ll have that.

Not really when you understand why lots of people watch sport; they want to believe in a simple world of fairytales. Pogacar because of his riding style fits into the same category as Pantani/Contador etc, riders with panache and style who get every bounce of the ball.

Riders like Jonas and especially Froome don't get that and get doubted.

Looking at UAE ( a sports washing project like LIV golf or PSG/Man City-(effectively same owners)) from their ownership to to team management I'm not seeing anything like integrity/fair play or just plain decency.

When you put that with 7w/kg for 40 mins on Sunday, especially considering what happened on Saturday, you need to really put your rational brain in neutral to not be at least super suspicious.

When a rider has panache/guts/style we let emotions take ever and convince ourselves its real this time; its the bike technology, tyres, training protocols etc etc.

You can just be a cynic like me and watch Eurosport with the same part of your brain that's engaged for Netflix.

I find Pogacar easier to get behind because he is personable, is a known talent since a teenager, has lost 2 TDFs, has blown up a few times and even this year was dragged back and beaten on the line by Vingegaard.

Sunday was exceptional but given what happened the previous week he might not have pulled off that 5k attack.

The sport just simply cannot afford another scandal like we had with Festina or Armstrong. Traditional doping, if it's happening 🙄, is much the lesser of 2 evils where mechanical doping is concerned. Maybe, just maybe, journos have satisfied themselves that there is no mechanical doping in the WT and are happy to leave it at that.

The ordinary viewer has to be living with his/her head in the clouds if they think these athletes aren't absolutlely lit. I have long since accepted that when watching most, if not all elite sports on TV , that I can be, let's just say a little bit sceptical, but still enjoy the entertainment for what it is. They are still phenomenal athletes doing phenomenal things and are amazing to watch.

"All Pro Tour cyclists are juiced" is such an easy broad brush stroke to make. The same comments are rarely made about T&F athletes (despite them having as much history with the problem). We're all wetting ourselves with excitement to see how our new track stars get on in Paris… not a peep. And we won't even bother talking about sports like rugby, where they pretty much openly admit to taking PEDs without fear or embarrassment. So much money involved in football that I'd be surprised if it wasn't widely accepted as part of the game dressed up as 'nutrition'/ 'science'. Ditto tennis. And I'd be shocked if it wasn't rife in golf where the top players increasingly rely on smashing the ball a mile down the fairway in ways that only outliers like John Daly used to. Woods is still pretty ripped for an aul fella.

As for US Sports… football, baseball… well.

But it seems only cycling fans who need to carry the yoke. Although of course the Irish lads are always seen as clean as a whistle of course.

Be cynical all you like, no judgment or argument from me there. But maybe we could keep it to the designated thread unless there's any actual evidence? And people who want to debate the merits/ demerits of various arguments can do that there? It just takes away from the actual Tour if its dropped into conversation here.

Well what exactly do you want us to do ?

Stop watching,

keep watching but give ourselves 5 lashes of the whip every day,

watch while miserably hating the whole thing.

No. I don't think he's saying that, but at least watch the TdF and all elite sports with your eyes open. Watch it for the entertainment and still marvel at what they're able to do but you just cannot take any epic sporting feat at face value. Watch it and enjoy it but don't try to convince yourself that it's clean. That's just living in cloud cuckoo land.

I thought the accepted practice here was to keep discussions about doping separate to competitions threads. Discussing the race does not imply that people are naive about doping. Doping in sport is an overarching issue and merits discussion in a separate thread in my view.

This is a quote from someone a few posts back

I’ll believe in Pogacar until someone can prove differently

Yeah. But there's a separate thread for that discussion. Otherwise it means people who read posts like that but who for whatever reason don't want to get into the doping speculation and just want to discuss the Tour itself have a choice of either a) engaging in the discussion, depressing themselves and losing track of the race discussion or b) ignore it and be seen by implication to be in agreement with the general consensus.