Russia-Ukraine War (Threadbanned in op)

Attributing a level of intelligence to the man that just does not exist. What are his advisors thinking?

He has just nominated a VP with a consistent record of opposing aid to Ukraine at every turn. Senator Vance has been one of the most strident and committed politicians when it comes to blocking efforts to pass bills to that end. Trump is 78. Whatever influence you choose to believe Vance may or may not have within the administration or on US foreign policy doesn’t negate the fact he would be a heartbeat away.

Trump does have a record as President. Trying to frame that time in a more favourable light is a hard sell. Consider how his former Defence Secretaries have characterised him. Esper & Mattis have expressed withering criticisms speaking of his incompetence, immaturity, & poor judgment. How many Secretaries of State & Defence will he fire in a second term? How many embassies around the world will he again leave understaffed & without ambassadors? We certainly already know he’s destabilising. We obviously don’t need to speculate on that score. I don’t think overall it was a desirable sort of destabilisation, however one might conceive of that notion. The last thing Ukraine or NATO need at this moment is this brand of “wildcard.”

Trump will hand over the entire country of Ukraine to Putin if he gets in. He's fully bought and paid for by the Kremlin. Nothing less would satisfy the Kremlin with the amount of time and money they've expended on him.

Russian tactics of divide and conquer seem to be bearing fruit.

This is not good for any of us,let alone Ukraine.

Turbulent times ahead,if Trump becomes President again.

Whether he is good for Ukraine, as opposed to NATO, however, is an entirely separate issue. I really think he could be a wildcard who could go anywhere from complete abandonment to "I shall be the hero of Ukraine, send in the US Army, and have statues built of me in Kyiv!" And then he can get that military parade in DC he wanted, like there was in 1991.

This x1000

If anyone tries to tell you what Trump is going to 100% do, they are lying. Because they don't know.

No one knows what Trump will do about NATO and Ukraine. Not even Trump knows tbh. He will approach it as it comes on the day or week in question.

GOP opposing measures by a Biden presidency is not exactly new.

But again, Trump being president and not being president are different things.

However, there is a wider discussion here. The US is embarking on a more isolationtionist foreign policy anyway. The EU and Europe nee to recognise this as the new way of things.

Is it unreasonable for Europe to be able to defend itself and support Ukraine without US help? The average voter in the Rust Belt would certainly think so. From their point of view, why is he the tax payer stumping up the cash when Europeans wont put their own hand in their pocket?

The fact that we in Europe are so reliant on US Defence is an indictment, not of Trump or American Isolationists, but of us, in Europe. We had it good for so long, and yes, I would hope American military aid goes to Ukraine to win that war, but at the end of the day, the well will run dry.

Before the invasion of Ukraine?

I think it’s fair to say that even Trump himself doesn’t know what Trump will do or not (he has to survive his cult assassination attempts first and win election second tho)

But if he does the last thing he will want at start of his term is an Afghanistan fiasco x100 as nothing positive politically come of it while it’s not his own money going to help Ukrainians which is path of least resistance

All Zelensky have to do is ask for a **** load of military equipment and promise Trump it be used to hold the biggest parade for him to which he of course be invited and cheered

@johnnyskeleton is there a reason you're discounting France's nuclear arsenal? I know it's pretty small by comparison to the figures reported for the US or Russia but 300 nuclear warheads would be more than enough to destroy Russia so it's no small threat.

Unlike the UK arsenal, the French weapons are fully under their control too so transfer of that technology to the likes of Poland wouldn't be outside their control either.

Was Ukraine invaded in 2014?

Was Trump President when Russian and Russian backed forces were occupying part of Ukraine?

Did Trump as President hold up aid to Ukraine for scurrilous partisan goals in an abuse of power?

If Trump becomes the next President, he will inherit a situation where Russian and Russian backed forces are occupying part of Ukraine.

The parallels are obvious. So yeah, this 'counter historical' stuff is tiring alright. Does ignoring all the available evidence qualify as 'counter historical stuff' in slogan bingo land?

And before you reply with, you don't know what he will do for sure, well no one does about anybody. So that's a carte blanche to adopt any position, regardless of foundation or merit.

You don't know that Putin won't surrender tomorrow and hand himself over to the Hague. However, there is no basis to propose it as a likely possibility.

But we can make reasonable forecasts based on previous behaviour and available evidence.

And it is entirely reasonable to propose that the overwhelming likelihood is that a Trump win means cutting off of support to Ukraine.

Thought this was interesting and goes in hand with article in Telegraph which made points that no Russia does not have endless manpower despite what Russians try to paint

It is completely reasonable to say likelihood is that he will cut off aid in line with his previous actions both as President and more recently via his stooges in Congress, in line with the public pronouncements of his recent VP on the subject.
In response all you have is speculative "wild card" uncertainty and "no one knows" and "may be bad or good for Ukraine".
Zero evidence provided as this deal would be good for Ukraine, or better than anything they could get with a different administration backing them.
Not a credible or convincing position.

Trump will just pin anything bad that happens on Ukraine on Biden. We've seen the US cut and run before… the fall of Saigon, the fall of Kabul.

I'll stick to the facts and evidence and how Trump has actually conducted himself towards Ukraine. And nothing in his previous foreign policy conduct or conduct towards Ukraine suggests any basis for claims he will be better for Ukraine in a second term.

98 times he's been mentioned in this page. He isn't in control he isn't in power he might not ever be again. Even if NATO was dissolved the EU could still kick russia back into the stone age. Get a grip lads.