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What’s your most controversial opinion? **Read OP** **Mod Note in Post #3372**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭Sgt Hartman


    I think there’s a fairly big class divide in this country. You have the leafy suburb dwelling, pro establishment middle classes and then you have the rabble rousing working classes who aren’t afraid to go out there and protest against government endorsed bullsh!t.
    For example, the latter were out protesting against water charges while the former were telling people to suck it up and pay their charges, which is easy for them to say in their comfortable bubbles.
    It’s not a recent phenomenon either. An example would be in the 80’s when Martin Cahill would arrange tyre slashing sprees in middle class neighbourhoods in order to stick it up to the system and it’s supporters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    The Genedal, what a lad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Sponge25


    There have been a fair few absolutely heinous crimes committed by the far right over the years alright but I would argue the far left have done far more damage to the fabric of society by their attacks on the family and tradition. The far right haven't really changed society at all since the end of the world war. I don't know how Stalin isn't viewed in the same light as Hitler. I personally would argue Stalin was far worse than Hitler. If Hitler had've stopped at the Anschluss, he'd be considered the greatest statesmen of the 20th century.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I struggle to understand the ethical standpoint of some of the posters on this thread regarding human rights and personal rights in Muslim societies. It’s a matter of public record and well reflected in research and surveys that all Islamic societies are either moderately or highly intolerant, but many posters rejected this out of hand. I expect many of them are of the impression we live in a nice happy world where repression hardly ever happens, but unfortunately repression is the default and free and tolerant countries are quite rare. Repression like everything is on a spectrum so of course some Muslim countries are much more repressive than others but the range goes from medium to high not from low to high.

    Someone mentioned Muslim countries in Southeast Europe. Bosnia and Albania are only 50 to 60% Muslim and are not officially Muslim countries according to their governments. All of them are much more intolerant than the European mainstream. This isn’t Islamophobia or conjecture. It’s a matter of record.

    Regarding democracy in place like Iran. The ayatollah can overrule the president so democratic elections are much more limited in scope compared to the west. In most Muslim countries there is no democracy at all or is a total sham.

    Post edited by spacetweek on


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,253 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    What values would those be?

    To be hetero and marry and raise a family?

    Last time I looked, that was still permitted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Who doesn't view Stalin as a monster? Mao is also as bad, if not worse. Hitler wasn't going to stop anywhere, what he became known for was embedded in him from the 1920's.



  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Sponge25


    The far left often don't view Stalin as an monster. If you were to have a poll amongst the general populace of who was more evil, Stalin or Hitler, the vast majority would vote Hitler even though Stalin caused more deaths and misery and atleast Hitler didn't randomly purge his own party after the Night of the long knives. (which I would argue was necessary as Rohm was going to cause a civil war or attempt a putsch.) No doubt Hitler was evil but he was no more evil than Stalin or Mao, even lefty favourite Trotsky was an atrocious individual who was up to his neck in blood.

    whisky_galore: The left has absolutely destroyed the morals of the West. It has been there plan for a long time to undermine the family. There's evidence of this is readily available with a quick google search so I don't intend to dig it up here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,226 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    It's tempting to give government extra powers to crack down on protestors you disagree with, but these powers will still be there to use against you if you want to protest.

    If people are breaking the law or committing criminal damage then the Guards already have the laws to arrest them. Of course, it might not be practicable during a protest.

    You make laws for the bad government, not the good one. A bad government would love the ability to fire rubber bullets at protestors. Make protests illegal in practical terms and then treat protestors as criminals. I doubt you'd be happy about it if you actually got what you're asking for. Effective protest is pretty important and what you're proposing is part of neutering protest against a bad government - which is when we'd really need it.

    Post edited by El_Duderino 09 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    I do not support the Irish rugby team.

    I feel that the team is full of private school knobs, northern unionists and mercenaries from the southern hemisphere. Good luck if you feel part of “the team of us” but I have nothing in common with them.

    Also Munster supporters who look down on the posh Leinster supporters. Give me a break - pot and kettle come to mind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,880 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Not sure where you're getting your information from but Kosovo is 95.6% muslim. Albania is 60% muslim. Turkey is 90% muslim

    Having actually lived in the area I can say that they are tolerant societies. And they are not ' All of them are much more intolerant than the European mainstream. '



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    We dont live in China or Russia, it is just fearmongering to be thinking we are going to get some crazy evil Government in Ireland any time soon, if ever.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,226 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Let's hope not. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I meant to say Bosnia not Kosovo.

    Nowhere in eastern Europe whether Muslim or Christian is as tolerant as the west, that is notable across the region. And organisations have surveyed Muslims on their social attitudes in many countries and none are tolerant by western standards. Read “The Moral Landscape” by Sam Harris for more information.

    “I have lived there and it’s tolerant” means your limited personal experience there gave you limited insight. I’d trust nationwide surveys over that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭Rezident


    Palestine is not a true State, it is a radical Arab construct to kill the last remaining Jews in the Middle East by any means including sacrificing their own women and children as suicide bombers and human shields just to kill one Jew or even just for anti-Israel PR.

    It has fooled whole nations, including Ireland, who think that the Arabs are the oppressed. Only 7m Jews left in the midst of 450m Arabs. It is one of the most diabolical and ingenious plots in history and it is working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,880 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Personally I would always take someone's lived experience over various statistics cobbled together by a research team, with no actual experience of anywhere.

    a claim was made that No Muslim country in the world are democratic, tolerant societies. There are, I just mentioned the ones I am more familiar with, I'm sure there are others.

    Not all Muslim countries are strict Islamic states, lazy and prejudice to suggest it, not just by you in particular.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,226 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah that's about as clever as anti-Irish propaganda when we were fighting for our right to self-determination.

    The British told each other the Irishare savages who just wanted to kill the British, but what we actually wanted was our own country and to govern ourselves and not to be second class citizens in someone else's control. After we got independence it took a few decades to properly normalise relations. But we got there.

    What we wanted was equality and independence, not to kill the British.



  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭Dr.Tom


    The GAA……

    A multi million euro profit generating land owning state funded organization for a sport "played by amateurs and ran by volunteers".



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,384 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I think his treatment of the Jewish people and "undesireables" would have prevented him from getting that title even without WW2, but please do tell me the damage the far left have done in the last 75 years?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,253 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    *their plan...

    Sorry but this is bullshít. For a start, the main parties people elected here are centrist, centre right/centre left. "The actual left" are marginal fringe parties.

    You are free to practice your religion, start a family (you get free money for having a kid), incentives for married couples.

    Show me how it's being destroyed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭cms88


    If marriage was the other way around ie the woman had to propose, would end up losing almost everything if it didn't work out it would be very interesting to see how high marriage rates would be.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,804 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Do you have any evidence that the far left don't see Stalin as a monster or do you just believe everything that you like the sounds of on social media? Most people would consider Hitler worse and there's reasons for this, one of them is Hitler killing millions of Jews is more well known to the general population than Stalin killing millions of his own people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Plus as well, polling on who is the most evil is just very opinionated and arbitrary. Like definitively saying one party is the most evil is just an awkward thing to define. Go to one region and you're likely to get a different result because the impact on the region is more recognised by the people there. Such a vote result doesn't translate to people viewing other parties as not evil.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,226 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Yeah, Seriously.

    A: Which is worse, Stalin or Hitler?

    B: erm, probably Hitler.

    A: you don't view Stalin as a monster!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Honestly, it reminds me of the posters who excitedly say "Hitler was a socialist", there's an agenda and it's pretty dodgy.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,049 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Palestine with Arabs in it has existed for more than 2000 years, since the biblical exodus I believe, right up to the point where Israel was created right in the middle of it without any consultation. It seems to me that most of the reason for Western support for the creation of Israel was because most of those countries had always unfairly accused their Jewish minorities of being troublesome and were glad for the opportunity to see them leave.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora#:~:text=In%20722%20BCE%2C%20the%20Assyrians,in%20the%206th%20century%20BCE.
    Palestine certainly doesn’t exist just to piss off Jews, it has a very long history and its own distinct culture.



  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Sponge25


    I meant without the treatment of the Jews and "undesirables" etc. Damage the far left have done, wokeism for a start. They have lobotomised the youth of the West.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Reducto ad woke



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,384 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    You said, " if Hitler had've stopped at the Anschluss, he'd be considered the greatest statesmen of the 20th century" - his persecutions started long before that. If you take out his invasions and persecutions there's not much to remember him by, let alone make him "the greatest Statesman of all time".

    You didn't say "damage", you said "heinous crimes". And wokeism is as broad a term as you can get not to mention divisive and not even close to being a synonym for "far left", but again: if would depend on what specific acts you're refering to as "heinous crimes". "Lebotimis[ing] the youth of the West" is a bit too figurative to be considered.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Can you clarify, what aspects of Hitler do you admire? Cause you seem to be a bit of a fan.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    There is a big class divide, between the people who work and have ambition and the lazy people who want everything for free and refuse to work and begrudge people who have built up wealth for themselves. I despise the former, a bad little crowd of bitter people who blame the Government for all their problems, they will be put in their place soon enough. As for Martin Cahill, he was a piece of dirt, glad he is dead, hardly a hero, slashing peoples tyres is pathetic, the action of someone who never grew up.



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