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Star Wars: The Acolyte - Disney+ - (***Spoilers***)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    the show is bucket of old dirty piss….it been getting worse… I’d doubt there will season 2 but then again maybe there is a lot of hate watchers



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Yeah I have to agree, the show has been a bit of a dud. Could have been an interesting show with Qimir turning a Jedi Padawan into his apprentice and showing the failures of the Jedi (in a different way to how Palpatine turned Anakin), but there's been so much superfluous fluff in the show between the Nightsisters or whatever they are, the fact the girls are twins rather than just having one character teeter between the Light and Dark side, them being born through the Force like Anakin was (which a lot of SW fans are giving out about because it makes Anakin less special since he was born the same way. I don't have any issue with that, I just think it feels pointless and redundant for Mae and Osha). The whole show has been a convoluted mess.

    Can't see it getting a second season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    I don’t really have a problem with the story, it’s just the execution is terrible. It looks really cheap, the acting is awkward, pacing is all over the place, poor music (is there even music ?)… it’s very sterile ….it feels like an episode of Xena warrior princess not a 100 million dollar show….



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,075 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    I think Episode 7 was more of a repeat of a previous episode than anything else. I didn't even care when any new snippets of what we didn't see in the other episode were shown. Still, it only lasted about 37 minutes. I expect episode 8 might be a lot longer.

    It's still getting crucified on IMDB, and some of the high-raters are really getting angry with the low-raters who think that it's complete crap. 😛



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,481 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Saw a comment on Reddit, There's a decent show in here with a better editor. Can't imagine this is how the show/ movie was originally envisaged. I don't understand how Disney keeps fumbling these shows. Like who is looking at this product and thinking they've nailed it, do they not do test audiences anymore?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,901 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    if jedis are not allowed to have feelings or wants when they do they are very easily manipulated…



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,350 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    from thumbnails it doesnt look like it will be renewed? seems like little interest in this expensive "fan fiction"

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Why do you think Jedi aren't allowed to have feelings?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,561 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    'cos that's their brand? The Jedi as shown in the films & TV are supposed to be these warrior-monks who intentionally surpress any and all emotion or personal connection. Passion and even romantic affection is considered the path to the Dark Side; kinda hobbles the ability to write good characters when the good guys aren't allowed by horny for other people.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Absolutely not true, the Jedi do and of course have feelings and encourage them. They're encouraged to be caring, empathetic and loving. What they're specifically taught is to be careful with their emotions, and to not form attachments.

    Obi-Wan himself has romantic affection with Satine and is honest about it. He actively gets annoyed and even angry with Anakin, he gets frustrated with Qui Gon and Luke forms strong friendships with Han and more.

    They're not Vulcans, they do have and express feelings, just told to be very careful about them.

    The path to darkside isn't love itself, it's not being able to let go of potential loss and hurt.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,561 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    "not form attachments" is kinda what I'm talking about though, cos you're kinda neutering a gigantic chunk of the human experience & dramatic fiction. And I think that's an over expansion on what has been displayed or insinuated on-screen throughout the Franchise: it's certainly not how actors have chosen to translate all that into their performances playing Jedi, including here & or Ahsoka (aka the show with Rosario Dawson standing around with her arms folded). They are, by and large, emotionally neutered at best and sanctimonious at worst, wearing a pompous self-serious air that has made each successive Jedi very hard to invest in as characters.

    There might be space for nuance, but this has been rarely or adequately translated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Oh I'm not contesting that they're pompous and all that, they often are. I'm just saying the idea that they're emotionless and don't or not allowed to have feelings is simply wrong.

    The Jedi, like a lot of other fantasy/sci-fi type heroes are really more considered to be stoic, in that they they do feel strong and normal emotions, but choose to act rationally and logically over letting their emotions control them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,901 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    they were on that planet for 7 weeks before they told the padawan why?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,561 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    "Emotionless" is overselling it on my part, yes they're not without emotion so "stoic" is definitely the more apt phrasing for the Jedis' baseline of personalities - but that still amounts to the same problem for me if we're gonna hang stories off these archetypes.

    That utter lack of broad emotional register isn't so impactful if they're part of an ensemble and there's emotionality or magnetic characters surrounding them; we saw that clear enough with the original trilogy. The heart and soul of those films were Leia & Han, not Luke IMO. Gandalf was a main character but he wasn't the main character & worked 'cos he bounced off the rest of the Fellowship - and so on. To frame an entire narrative around the Jedi collapses under the weight of that pomposity and deliberate lack of passion, for want of a better word.



  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭fitz


    One of the reasons I actually liked The Last Jedi, despite it having problems, was the idea that for Rey, the Force was just a tool to be used.

    If they're going to continue with stories set after the sequel trilogy, I'd like to see them have "Jedi" just be Force users who use their power for good, and they ditch this chaste, monk concept - go for more of a samurai concept. Let them have families, ffs. You're 100% right, having these celibate, repressed characters is extremely restraining, and the idea that acting out of strong emotions is inherently a path to evil is just reductive and boring.

    Star Wars is at its best when there's a bit of grey area to the characters, as seen most recently in Andor. Tbh, I'm kinda rooting for Qimir in The Acolyte, and if anything, the more Star Wars I watch, the more the Jedi order seems like a misguided religion of noble intentions, but ultimately one capable of particularly arrogant and harmful actions. Ditch it, and start over, imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    That's one of the things I think The Last Jedi got absolutely right and was the best path forward for Star Wars; the Jedi are human (well, humanoid aliens…). They're fallible, they're prone to mistakes, and it was their own hubris and hero complex that keeps allowing evil to rise. They don't own or control the Force, the Force is there regardless. They can wield it, but it can also wield them. The Force doesn't belong to powerful families or lineages, it belongs to everyone. It's why it chose Rey and was giving her the power to defeat the Dark Side even though her parents were nobody.

    Then because of the backlash to the film because Luke wasn't completely heroic throughout the entire film, they brought JJ Abrams back in, Rey is a Palpatine and somehow Palpatine returned, Rey decides to be a Skywalker, and Finn thinks he's Force-sensitive but doesn't say anything because obviously the Force only belongs to powerful families.

    Not saying The Last Jedi didn't have problems. But if they properly followed up on it they could have explained how Luke was manipulated into seeing Ben as a threat, who Snoke was (easily could have made him Darth Plaigus) etc. Even for those who didn't like it it could have became a strong second part of a three-part story. But they overcorrected and undid everything done in The Last Jedi (Oh yeah, your parents were nobodies. But your grandfather was one of the most powerful men to ever have existed. Forgot to mention that. Now where's the helmet I destroyed in the last film that I suddenly need again for no good reason.)

    This show could have tapped into more of that. How Qimir and Sol are both two sides of the same coin and showing how easily one could be swayed from the light to the dark rather than how massive Anakin's shift was.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,561 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I have a funny feeling in a few years there's gonna be a big, collective realisation that Star Wars completely fúcked itself over in jettisoning the whole democratisation of the Jedi in favour of Nostalgia Wànk. If people are suddenly assessing the prequels in a positive light, I'd be shocked if the Last Jedi doesn't undergo the same reassessment; there was clearly a desire to decouple the franchise from legacy hierarchies and insistence the Force was for lineages only. Its final shot promised so much.

    It's odd how in a dogmatic pursuit of "lore", the Force has become this elitist quantity only the blessed few are allowed wield. And if you're not an emotionally constipated monk you're dangerous. If I had more time on my hands there's probably a very unhealthy message for kids here; orthodoxies or some such.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Even when it comes to Luke himself, there's such a hero fantasy about him because most people who saw the films did so when they were children. Whereas the truth is Luke was always flawed, impulsive, and teetered on the edge of the Dark Side himself. In Empire he left Yoda's training because he sensed Leia and Han were in trouble even though Yoda explicitly told him not to go. He lost badly against Vader. In Jedi, he fell right into Jabba's trap. When he was with the Emperor and Vader, the Emperor goaded him into trying to attack him and give in to his hatred. When Vader taunted him about going after Leia, he again gave in to his anger and took Vader down, only pulling back at the last minute. And then it was Vader who took down the Emperor, not Luke.

    So for Luke to become victim to his own hubris of being the hero credited with taking down the Emperor, of being the one to rebuild the Jedi Order, leading him to see Ben as a threat for whatever reason (again, could have been further expanded on in Episode 9), it makes perfect sense.

    A lot of fans just couldn't see Luke as not being completely heroic, even though by the end he beats the First Order, helps the others escape, renews hope in the rebellion and beats Kylo Ren. He was a far more interesting character in TLJ and Mark Hamill gave his best on-screen performance than any of the original trilogy.

    But I think once he threw the lightsaber over his shoulder, some fans were just never going to accept anything after that. Star Wars needs to evolve past Jedi V Sith, Light V Dark, Blue/Green V Red lightsabers go vhissh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭Relikk


    I doubt that Disney/Lucasfilm care that the show isn't being viewed in the same light as they want it to be. They'll greenlight a second series whether we like it, or not, and will continue to blame everything but their own shabby standards when it fails, again, and it will fail because Headland wants to tie into the beloved Darth Plagueis novel. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

    Andor season 2 is really the last indicator of anything worthwhile in Star Wars for a very long time to come.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,350 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Could be, companies like Disney have made the process of finding out what is profitable/loss making so opaque that financials barely register in decisions of what to back? but it will catch up with them at some stage

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,561 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I'd say any continuation of this kinda depends on the hidden figures that tell Disney+ if this has been a success anymore. Filtering out the reflexive malcontents who'd boo their own shadow cos it was black, how successful has this show been? And indeed: what are the metrics for success at that? Social media? Retaining or gaining Disney+ subscribers?

    Absolutely, when you sit down and chartt Luke as a character and person, his journey was one of being flawed and deeply human. The tossing of the light saber was perhaps way too glib and poisoned the well before the arc even got started, but the bones of the story and its attempts to claw back some emotionality in the Jedi, was there.

    Mind you, this isn't a flaw with Start Wars: we've seen of late a weird fixation and misjudged reverence for "lore" as something untouchable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,901 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    saw someone on reddit say that the 7 weeks of waiting to be told what they doing is a message from the show runner to us, no coincidence that the padawan said 7 weeks in the 7th episode...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭Relikk


    Ugh. Thank feck this is over. It was absolutely terrible.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I actually didn't mind it. Still a weak show overall with too much focus on the wrong things, and Amandla Stenberg just wasn't great, but it had enough throughout to keep some interest, decent performances from others, and I enjoyed the dispelling the myth of "Jedi = Always the good guys". David Harewood's short scene with the Jedi was exactly what I was looking for and was the kind of thing a lot of us discussed further up this page.

    Assuming the figure in the cave was Darth Plagueus who may have been pulling the strings the whole time, which would be interesting to start following up in if they got a Season 2.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,350 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    There were some Mary Poppins-esque clips floating around this morning, didnt look great

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,729 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    There were one or two moments during a lightsaber battle where they looked a bit floaty and obviously on wires, but they were using the Force to land from a fall so it made a reasonable amount of sense for why it looked like that. The lightsaber fight as a whole was pretty good.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    I stopped after 3 episodes.

    Then said go on sure get through it and just finished it there.

    I thought it was shite.

    If there is a second season there's no way I see Disney handing over another $180 Million that's for sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    didn’t think the finale was too bad. But I don’t know where that $180,000,000 went, the show looked cheap. Overall a poor show but had some interesting dark narrative choices. I would watch a second season purely for darth plagueis, but they will probably waste the character. Also I have had enough Yoda, all he does is talk shite.
    Anyway looks like the show is neither well liked or viewed by many so will be canceled.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,561 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I think I said it here, but my speculation about the budget is that based on the couple of episodes I endured, there was a tonne of expensive looking detail in otherwise throwaway moments or setups; like, in episode 1 alone there were at least 2 complex, animatronic alien characters who had one scene - then were gone. The bartender and one of the escapee aliens; and there were others too in the background of nearly every scene, the aforementioned were just the ones I remembered cos they had lines.

    For comparison, Star Trek Discovery had one major alien FX (Saru) and he was a main character through 5 seasons of the show. Saru cost money to rig and Paramount were gonna get value. That shít is expensive to design, build and operate and for a fleeting character who could have otherwise been played by a human in a wig? Don't multiple times across the season without repetition ?That's where I'd say the money bled.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


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