Doping megathread - I can't even think of a witty tagline

Very interesting and eye-opening podcast with Lizzy Banks regarding diuretic "masking agents" and contamination. As a 100% cynic, it's made me question my own reaction to the likes of Toon Aerts,  Shari Bossuyt, Hessman and even as far back as Contador.

https://open.spotify.com/show/2tvYRMktvIYH7CLg0vHTr4

I didn't hear the podcast but her article taken at face value makes depressing reading and probably put me off generic meds for a while..

https://lizzybanks.co.uk/

I believe this thread may be due a bump…

I think it's as a result of the TdF thread getting sidetracked into a discussion about whether it's realistic for 3 riders to annihilate Pantani's record from 25 years ago.

I've followed pro cycling since the 80's, so I'm not naive, however there isn't a whiff of anything bar the performances. There was always more than that throughout the 90's, 00's.

Pointing at performances also ignores the greater knowledge of science around nutrition, training, altitude. As well as equipment. I wouldn't claim to be an aero expert, but once they start going faster up hill, the aero benefits possibly giving exponential benefits? Particularly compared to the round tubed cables everywhere 90's?

There's a whole fully researched article on this and "super altitude" on the escape collective by Ronan McLoughlin. The rebreathers are used to test the affects of altititude at the start and end of blocks (and one team said they used them in the middle too). There is potential for them to be used for performance benefits, but that's would be instead of altitude. Even the super teams don't own their own, and use University ones, under supervision.

Away from the sensational headline, my main takeaway that the real issue is money - for the testing, for the weeks and weeks at altitude (plus tents).

https://escapecollective.com/exclusive-tour-riders-are-inhaling-carbon-monoxide-in-super-altitude-recipe/

I would have perhaps thought some of the modern obesity drugs, but then you still have stories like Abrahamsen, who put down the performance to not chasing w/kg. If there was a magic pill that meant you could fuel and lose weight and keep power you wouldn't have riders like him, Mads etc.

Didn't take long …

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/its-just-a-pretty-simple-test-tour-de-france-leader-tadej-pogacar-confirms-use-of-carbon-monoxide-rebreather/

It's funny how all the noise online around Ketones and 'legal cheating' by Jumbo has disappeared. There was definitely plenty of insinuation when it first came out a couple of years ago, yet now you have Orla C. and Robbie Mc. sampling it live on air by way of taste testing. Kind of goes to show that there is a very grey area between what is pushing the boundaries of science and what is illegal doping. I'd imagine that if any football/ rugby/ tennis/ GAA player was subjected to the same tests and standards as TDF riders they'd fail every time, simply due to the volume of banned substances in cycling.

I know it's paywalled, but the above escape collective article is well worth a read if interested. I think they have an offer at the moment for $1. It's the type of research why I'm ok paying the sub!

These types of devices have two potential uses within elite sport. The first is called carbon monoxide (CO) rebreathing, a measurement tool that helps teams quickly and accurately track key blood values and optimise the powerful physiological benefits of altitude training. 

A second, more aggressive approach, which is called carbon monoxide inhalation and uses the same equipment and techniques, steps into the scientifically new and much riskier realm of inhaling the poisonous gas for the express purpose of performance enhancement. A growing body of recent scientific research suggests CO inhalation can have a powerful impact on measures of aerobic capacity like VO2max, or maximal oxygen uptake.

The technique is not banned by WADA, although it appears to conflict with the agency’s rules around artificial manipulation of the blood. And there is no hard evidence that any WorldTeams are currently using CO inhalation for performance gains. But multiple sources for this article voiced concern that it might be imminent, and possibly already happening in cycling or other sports.

Ultimately, there's no evidence of it being used for the second approach at all. Using the device for testing has been in use for decades in medical environments.

It's actually nagging away at me that I seem to recall Wiggins being accused of something to do with CO, but I haven't found it.

Fair enough on the banned substances list… every day's a school day.

But as you say, the lack of failed tests in any other major (i.e. billions of money at stake, can't be having scandals) sport says it all. Can you imagine football/ GAA/ rugby fans getting all hot and bothered because one of their team's players was seen puffing on an inhaler like Froomedog? Going by the devotion the rugby lads in my school had to creatine in the late 90s, I can only imagine what's going on now. Steroids rife in gyms by all accounts. But that's ok because they drink wheatgrass shots and organic flat whites, they're clearly just finely tuned athletes.

None of that is to suggest cycling should turn a blind eye at all, but the lack of perspective among sports fans does my head in. Athletics (and maybe swimming?) is the only other sport to remotely take doping seriously from what I can see.

On that note, another way of looking at it is to ask the question, when did anti doping become a hot topic is cycling, and why was there not a nonchalance about the issue similar to other sports? Cycling has effectively made a rod for its own back - the first thing any non-cycling fan will say to me when I tell them I'm a fan and watching say the TDF is, "ah sure they're all doping". Yes, that's obviously a result of the 90s and Lance era scandals, and cycling has nobody to blame but itself for the cheating, but its still the case that if cycling simply held itself to the same standards as rugby or football nobody would say a thing.

You'd be very disappointed to find out that any of the current top guys are doping as they seem a much more likeable bunch of young lads than their predecessors. No doubt there'll always be someone looking to cross the line.

I think cycling may have a self imposed no injection rule. This may be out of date, was only listening to the secret cyclist audio book last night and he mentioned it. So while there may be wider list across organisations of banned substances, I think individual sporting bodies can have their own specifics too. Compare that with football, rugby, tennis etc, where it's widely reported about players having a few pain killing injections to get through a match, and nobody bats an eyelid. Nearly seen as a bad of honor about how 'tough' the sport is.

My own view is the current lads are probably operating in the grey area, like getting TUE's for medication that they might not really need but will take because the side affects give them an advantage rather than taking EPO or more traditional steriods.