What’s your most controversial opinion? **Read OP** **Mod Note in Post #3372**

If you stripped away some of the gloss from Ireland and there was a bit of an economic decline (not even on the level of 2009-2013), it would seem that the country has not really developed much over the last 20 years. Close a few businesses, lose a few jobs and all of a sudden people would start to notice that a lot of roads are of poor quality, cycle lanes not really developed, public transport unreliable and dated, architecturally unique buildings not really produced despite the boom of the last 20 years, housing underdeveloped, public amenities lacking and of poor quality, health system terrible etc. Essentially it doesn’t seem like much investment had gone into making the place modern, more liveable and nicer despite the billions upon billions that have flowed into the country.

What I have noticed from going to other European countries is that they are just nicer all round than Ireland is in terms of infrastructure, pedestrianised streets, trams, metros, cleanliness and even with architecture there has been no attempt at developing aspirational and inspirational buildings in the country that you would see in other countries. It all seems to be just under the high house prices and booming corporate tax receipts surface that Ireland is in fact not investing in itself for the modern times and feels very underdeveloped.

It's not that I can't answer, it's that I can't be arsed answering. I'm not going to spend the next hour formulating a response with evidence that the far left see the family as their biggest threat because if you had any real knowledge of communism or read any far left literature on fundamentals then you would know this. It's for my own sanity really, a simple google search will provide an abundance of evidence as it's a core tenet of Communism (the destruction of the nuclear family).

As for what Hitler accomplished, it's kind of hard to say without sounding like a sympathiser but i'll give it a try.

Hitler was ordered to spy on a party called the Deutsche Arbeiter Partei (DAP). He had just returned from the Great War to a country that was bankrupt both morally and fiscally. People who had worked their entire lives lost their entire lives savings, you LITERALLY needed a wheel barrow to carry the money to buy a single loaf of bread that was worth over a billion reichsmarks. The country was extremely traumatised, they were promised a swift glorious victory and received degradation beyond your worst imagination. Debauchery was everywhere, old women had to sell their bodies to put meagre food into the bellies of their loved ones. I could go on and on but it's well documented so I see no need too. Hitler, an absolute nobody, in short order turned this country into the most powerful country on Earth (atleast militarily). He restored dignity, jobs, happiness and order back to the German nation. He achieved what alot of commentators at the time called a miracle. This coming from a man who didn't come from the political class too. The DAP was a fringe party of about 100 losers, he renamed it the NSDAP and turned it into the most powerful party in Germany and became chancellor in the democratic manner proscribed by law. As I said, if he didn't persecute the jews and others and stopped at the Anschluss he would rightly be considered the greatest statesmen of the 20th century. I could go on, but I don't fancy writing a novel.

You're the one that obviously doesn't know. It's been an aim of Communism since the beginning to destroy the traditional family and associated values. The most infamous demand of the Communist Manifesto is "Abolition of the family". They see the family as the greatest impediment to Communism… You obviously haven't read it.

Between 1933 (the year of Hitlers rise to power) and 1938 wages rose by 19%, unemployment was practically zero and ordinary workers went to the Italian riviera trough the Strength trough Joy programme. (Something absolutely unheard of for working class people) Their economy improved faster than most other countries coming out of the Great Depression and the populace was happy. I'm not an expert on the specific policies that enabled the growth but it was because of policies Hitler introduced. There was a system of promissory notes but i'm not entirely familiar with how it worked as it's not my area of interest.

Eh, @Sponge25 has happily omitted that Hitler assumed dictatorial powers in 1933. Tended to jail his political opponents, sterilisation of undesirables started back then as well. So the disabled were a big target. On top of that, their economy boom was increased militarisation due to the intent for a war. In terms of things like issuing MEFO bills, it was unsustainable and would have collapsed their economy, then they entered a war and started plundering their victims. And the way Sponge is referring to antisemitism, you'd think it wasn't heavily prior to 1938.

Also, want to start citing some of the historians you're claiming back you up? Perception wise at time, it might have been good but the reality is it was gonna be a train wreck economically.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/nazi-germany-and-the-economic-miracle/

Agree, we have a terrible aesthetic and useless at any sort of medium or long term planning.

Fired up as cheaply as possible but still wildly expensive somehow.

In many European cities they have a historic centre with nice old well maintained buildings. I think kilkenny city is about the only place that comes anywhere near this.

I'm starting to see that now buddy. The only reason I gave a response at all is because they oppose wokeism in their signature. It seems like I could give them an encyclopedic response and they wouldn't be happy. shrugs

You still considered him to have been a great statesman up until he started the persecutions c. 1933.

But again, the telling point is that you can NOT point to a single act, policy or reform between 1920 and 1933 on which to base your opinion. On top of that, the DAP were preaching anti-semitic and ultranationalist policies long before Hitler came to power and THESE are the police that projected him to dictatorship.

Now, I'm not for one second saying you approve of any of these - I'm saying you're completely ignorant of them, and the eividence of your last few posts plus the admission that you can't actually point to a policy, pretty much confirms this.

Pretty telling that you're not willing to discuss the state the economy was gonna end up in. He would never have had a good reputation with the direction he was sending the economy. The war pretty much masked the issue.

Well said, I find it bizarre that people complain, loudly, about the “Team of Us nonsense” not realising that it’s a Vodafone marketing campaign.

Has nothing to do with any supporters or any “agenda” bar to advertise Vodafone and its products.

I never considered him a great statesmen, I said he would've been considered the best statesmen of the early 20th century if he didn't persecute anyone and stopped after he incorporated all German peoples into the Reich. Saying the DAP propelled Hitler into power is laughable, they had absolutely no power and were beyond a fringe party until Hitler joined and grew the party largely trough his remarkable oratory skills. Yes, the DAP were anti-semitic from the start, so were the vast majority of people, including in Britain and the USA. You should look into Henry Fords 'International Jewry: The world foremost problem'. It wasn't remarkable at all in the 20's or 30's to be anti-semitic.

He instituted a vast scheme of public works such as building and repairing the auto-bahn, housing and other vital infrastructure projects and amongst other things created the most formidable army in the world at the time, creating mass employment and spending power and thus taxation. There was a certain promissory note called a MEFO note used to enable these things but most of all he created a persona that the nation could coalesce around to create the economy in the first place. If there was no strong leader like Hitler, the economy would have remained stagnant and fractious. He got the nation to do what needed to be done to get the job done, that's his foremost contribution to the economy but I already told you twice that this isn't my area of expertise nor interest.

You seem to be trying to find any reason to disagree with me and accuse me of ignorance.

Usually I would agree and no one knows for sure what would've happened to the economy eventually, least of all me but the fact that German productivity INCREASED while they were being bombarded day and night says there was some merit to the scheme. Speer produced a practical miracle of his own in this regard. To be honest with you, I don't know an awful lot about the economic situation. I'm far more knowledgeable about the political and military situation. Before you say it, I know there was other reason for the increased productivity such as forced labour etc. but I highly doubt if Germany had won the war, especially if they didn't getting involved with a war with America, that their economy would have eventually collapsed because of the MEFO system.

As for the brain drain, Germany still possessed some of the brightest and most capable men in the world, they produced the first jet fighters, the first man made object to enter space (the V2), had the finest tanks in the world and even boasted a nuclear programme (which wasn't ambitious enough thankfully) to name but a few things. This is evidenced by the fact the victorious allied nations vied with each other to scoop up as many German scientists, engineers etc. as absolutely possible (Operation Paperclip). Werner von Braun, the director of the vengeance series of weapons went on to head NASA and build the Saturn V that put a man on the moon, multiple times.

It's an absolute shame what happened to the Jews and other assorted victims of the genocide, especially because the vast majority of them were integrated, highly patriotic Germans who often considered themselves Germans first and Jews second. I have tried for years to discover the real cause of the holocaust but I can't find a genuine reason why the Jews were despised to such an extent they were murdered in their millions. The vast majority of Germans were not happy with exterminating every last Jew. They had Jewish friends, they knew that the Jews were like any other people, some were bad, some were good, most were somewhere in between. I think the blame for the Holocaust lies squarely on the NSDAP and those who aided them and not with the German people. I know we weren't discussing this but it always comes up at some point.

As for princess bananna hammok, I still await your response now that I have given you actual policies that Hitler instituted in my previous post but I suppose it will be the usual ad hominems.

I am sure this has been mentioned before but most people on boards are complete ****.

Especially those who photograph badly parked cars, ev drivers, SF voters and all the trolls on gender issues. The cycling green proganda machine that think we should cycle to work on our bikes, the complete **** who think dog controls wont work because it’s hard to tell a pittbull from a cockapoodledoo.

Honestly it's sounding rather like you're pushing propaganda at this point. So care to point to historians that back up your perspective?