2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

comanche_cor · 15-07-2024 8:31am

Happy enough with the week just past, dropped my S&C and went to the physio with hip niggle. Seems to clearing up alright.

Got through all my runs fine - was a bit apprehensive about 16k run but it went well. Moved things around a bit again this week so I could go mountain biking Sunday.

Biggest think I learnt this week is I need to run my own race. Ran the docklands 5k as one of my workouts and got caught up in race adrenaline and ran a little fast even though I was trying to keep pace in line with workout. Also did the same thing with my long run as I joined up with parkrun to finish. I really need to just run my own race.

Got in 2x mobility (yoga) and started physio exercises and trying to use the demon foam roller more often.

This week is a deload week looking to get back into S&C and will be back to physio for more exercises:

One question I have at the moment - how do ppl look at cross training. I am supposed to be doing the 'ring of clare' cycle this weekend but am thinking to give it a miss as I am on a deload week. But what about other things like cycle commuting etc?

Good tips on the holidays @Sunny Dayz - I have 2 weeks in Sept, gonna be a lot of route finding on Strava between now and then! :)

Sunny Dayz · 15-07-2024 8:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122381166#Comment_122381166

A really good post. Well done on your half marathon and a great finish! You've made some really good points that I hope other Novices will pick up on:

Getting some race experience in. The plans have races pencilled in from 10km up to half marathon distance. They aren't for you to try for a pb - they are for you to practice your race day technique. And not taking off like a greyhound out the trap at the start is good to learn and difficult to get right.
The benefit of long slow runs. The LSR trains you to feel more comfortable running over a longer distance/time. So then when you're racing, the uptick in pace isn't a massive strain because you're already conditioned to the stress of a longer distance.

TheRef · 15-07-2024 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382250#Comment_122382250

On the Ring of Clare. While I'm not familar with it, its a 120km or 160km course, so its an event in itself.

Cycling is great cross training for running as it is less impactful on the joints, so incorporating it into the likes of commuting is a good idea, assuming it's not a "too-long" commute. When I ran Dublin in 2022, I would referee 3 soccer matches back to back on the Saturday and do the long run on the Sunday. It really helped my strength and endurance, even through it was a heavy load.

Only you know how much you can handle, but remember the goal is to get to the start line in October fit and ready. Maybe for this weekend, ask yourself if the Clare event is wise to do and if you are to do it, whether you will be able to complete all runs over the next 2 weeks as planned.

Mantis Toboggan · 15-07-2024 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382242#Comment_122382242

I haven't as I'm fairly sure I know what's wrong but I think I'll bite the bullet this week and give it a go.

slingerz · 16-07-2024 10:18pm

SunnyDayz

I did book a last minute break for next weekend and was looking at the long run. So it over there early Saturday or put it off till last Sunday evening when I get back what would you think?

im interested in this as I have 2 big weekends in August, firstly EP and then secondly my 40th! Advice on working around these would be great!

any suggestions for those electrolyte tabs or other hydration items? I’m wondering about how to organise it in longer runs

AlmightyCushion · 16-07-2024 11:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122389548#Comment_122389548

I would move the runs around to suit your week. As long as you aren't doing two workout sessions back to back (e.g. fast session one day then long run the day after) it'll be fine. I also wouldn't schedule a long run after a trip/festival/hard night out. You're just asking for pain doing that and you might end up cutting it short. Try to do it before these events.

Sunny Dayz · 17-07-2024 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122389548#Comment_122389548

I would try and get the long run done before the weekend activity. I find that Sunday evening after a big night you're just not on form - I've tried it myself a couple of times and just felt like muck mentally and physically. Naturally you'll be tired and a bit dehydrated so you'll find the run tougher, then that may knock your confidence.

This is where the planning and one of the tough parts of marathon training comes in. And almost everyone will face this in their training block, be it a wedding, a break away, a celebration. Getting up early to get the long run done before social activities. Look at your training plan and see can you do your long run on Fri eve, early Sat morn? Have you a step back or deload week the week before or after that you may be able to swap around? Go and enjoy your celebration but plan your recovery after - plenty of water, good food, a walk in the fresh air. Nursing a hangover with netflix and mcdonalds won't help your training or have you ready for Mon or Tues run.

(My own example - I'm going to Block Rockin' Beats in Galway this weekend, heading over early to visit family and make a break of it. So the 21km on my plan for this weekend I did last weekend so I plan to go out Friday after work and aim for 16km which should keep me ticking over.)

In relation to electrolytes - I pop one in my drink to carry and this tends to do me for runs up to half marathon distance. Runs longer than that we either loop back to the car or stash a bottle en route. I usually use High 5 Zero hydration dissolvable tablets, you can get them in Elverys.

Sunny Dayz · 17-07-2024 9:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122382250#Comment_122382250

Well done on your week, good to hear that the hip is ok. It's normal to feel a bit apprehensive about a long run but a great feeling when it's done. It can be hard especially in the early weeks of marathon training to learn to pull back the pace. But good that you are now aware of it.

Cross training is supposed to be "easy". It's purpose is to get some light cardio to maintain endurance, work different muscle groups and also to aid recovery. That's why you often see it scheduled the day after your long run. When they say cycle I think its a gentle cycle - I've no idea about distance or pace, I don't even own a bike! But I'd imagine a cycle like the Ring of Clare would be more intense, cycle commute is good though. What you need to figure out for yourself is will you be sufficiently recovered for the next run on your training plan?

rosenallis · 17-07-2024 10:01am

Just on the cross training, is this a 'nice to have', or 'should have' as part of plans? I find with 4 runs, 2 x S&C and 1 x Yoga that it's a lot of time (and bad husbandry with the chores!). Another evening of a swim/ cycle I find hard to fit in and motivate myself for as I'm not a great swimmer/ cyclist. If there's a big gain i'll go for it!

TheRef · 17-07-2024 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122390558#Comment_122390558

Yoga is a form of cross training and if you are doing 2x S&Cs as well, imho, that's probably more than enough. Those sessions will help build strength and resilliance and keep you fresher but you will need to prioritise rest as well. 7 exercise sessions a week is a lot and as you move through the training block, you will likely find it mentally and physically tough as the distance builds and fatigue sets in. You don't want to get burned out from taking on too much. Rest/sleep is one of the four areas I prioritise in my training (the others being volume, consistency and food/hydration).

One of the main reasons for doing cross training is to train aerobically without the wear and tear that constantly running may introduce. It can also strengthen muscles that are supplementary to running which is only a good thing, but again, it needs to be balanced against everything else you are doing.

A final point I'd suggest you keep in mind is that when you complete Dublin, you want to be looking forward to doing it again. You need to make sure you enjoy the training and that it is compatible with your family and work life.

rosenallis · 17-07-2024 12:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391045#Comment_122391045

Thanks for the information, much appreciated. It's all doable at the moment, and somewhat enjoyable and i'm conscious of not wanting to push it too much into a chore.

Can I ask if S&C can/ should be completed on same days as run? I find the tempo/ speed runs are very doable in work lunch at only 45 minutes between out and back so I'm thinking of doing the S&C afterwards while I'm training anyway

TheRef · 18-07-2024 3:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122391174#Comment_122391174

Strength training (of lower body) should ideally be done on easy/general running days as opposed to tempo runs. The last thing you want is to do a good tempo, and after a few mins of resistnace training, end up injured as your muscles are already quite fatigued.

If you have spare time after a tempo run, I'd suggest you do core stability exercises. Having a strong core will really improve your running form and improve your ability in the latter stages of a race.

CassieManson · 18-07-2024 4:52pm

Hi all, hope the training is going well. I am following the 20 week plan as posted on the DCM website. So far so good - except that it doesn't incorporate the race series which is a bit annoying. This is week 6 and so far the longest run in the plan is 8km. Last Sunday the plan called for 6k but as I am doing the race series I did 10k…

This week the Sunday run is 16km which seems like a huge leap. Am planning to do it very slowly but would welcome any thoughts on going from 10k to 16k in one week.

https://irishlifedublinmarathon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Irish-Life-Dublin-Marathon-Training-Plan_compressed.pdf

marathon2022 · 18-07-2024 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122396730#Comment_122396730

Its daunting alright, there are a few mental and preperation techniques to try(for me anyway) when leaving the comfort zone.

Mental - Instead of worrying about 16k break it down into three 5k 's or think of it as only 10 miles instead of 6 miles :-)

Preparation- starting the day before, eat well(try to eat clean, easy to digest unprocessed foods), hydrate and try to get proper sleep. *I say this to everyone; if you like a couple of glasses of wine or a few beers—- dont the night before, you will suffer. The morning of the run, have some simple carbs, along the lines of a bagel, or brown bread and jam.

Run slow, this is a given, slower than the 10k last week. Listen to your body; run/walk if you have to. Static stretches only afterward if you have to.

Post run recovery should be hydration/carbs/electrolytes/sugars (within about 15 minutes of finishing) and maybe even an afternoon nap.

As you do more and run longer you will find a way, it will be tough

CassieManson · 19-07-2024 12:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122397321#Comment_122397321

Thanks! Very practical advice.

TheRef · 19-07-2024 8:55am

Very good advice from @marathon2022.

I also find that the battle is as much psychological as it is physical. When pushing the distance, I often break it into segments. Think about the first 3k as a warmup, then there is only 13k to go. Take the last 3k as a cool down run, then you just have the 10k you done last week. Run that 10k slower than last week, in a truely easy pace, and you might surprise yourself how much you have already progressed.

Also, when you start your 16k run, keep reminding yourself for the first few km that you are trying to preserve your strength and energy for the latter stages, and intentionally hold yourself back. Remember with these long runs, the objective is to complete the distance at a time ~30-40sec/km slower than your planned marathon time. You should be able to be able to have a conversation or mainly breathe through your nose on the long runs for the first half or so. You may need to work harder when you are up'ing the distance and unchartered territory, but keep focused.

Another thing I tend to do is run away from my starting point for the first half, so I know that I need to get back to the start regardless and either I give up and have a long walk, or I just try and keep going.

Also, try find a route that is flat so you can concerntrate on getting in the increased distance and not have the added battle of hills.

You definitely got this. If you ran 10k last week, you are definitely capable of running the 16k this week.

witnessmenow · 19-07-2024 11:33am

Just a reminder for people who are still looking for a ticket, the refunded tickets go on sale this Monday (the 22nd) at 12pm

https://irishlifedublinmarathon.ie/transfer-and-refund/

Places made available via the refund window will be resold on a first-come-first-served basis from Monday, July 22nd at 12pm.

The link will be available on the event website: . https://irishlifedublinmarathon.ie/

T-Bird · 19-07-2024 11:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122396730#Comment_122396730

I went back to listening to audio books, it passes the time and your reading as well.

CassieManson · 19-07-2024 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122399827#Comment_122399827

Thanks great suggestion, I will definitely do that for the solo long runs!

CassieManson · 19-07-2024 4:32pm

Thanks that all makes perfect sense. Will try a flat route for my first long run and take it slooow.

CassieManson · 21-07-2024 6:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122399002#Comment_122399002

Thanks for all the great advice. Got my 16km done today - slow and steady. Fairly flat route and good chat with my running buddy got me round. That's my longest run in over two years so delighted to have it done.

mossiepark · 21-07-2024 8:40pm

A good week down. What I'm considering my Wk 1 of Marathon Training Plan (Runna)

After the half Marathon, I needed the first week of the 16th week plan off to recover a minor issue with my knee. All well now but I decided to substitute some of the tempo runs earlier in the week for just getting out easy running. I really didn't want to deviate from the plan in week 1 but figured I'd listen to my body and see how I was feeling.

My week;

Tues - 8km easy run. Mobility work in the evening.

Wednesday 8km easy run (was supposed to be a tempo run). I felt great so pushed on in parts.

Thursday - 6km easy

Friday - 7km Interval. I was feeling back to normal so stuck with the plan. 2km warm up followed by 4 x 1km at 4.30km with 90 secs rest between each. Finished with a 1km cool down.

Sunday - 13km LSR

Total this week was a little over 43km. I feel back on track now so looking forward to the sessions this week. I had the foam roller out every night while watching TV and would recommend it 👌

Sunny Dayz · 21-07-2024 10:30pm

Apologies for not being on this thread the last few days - work and life have been busy - and thank you to those who have been able to help out here. It takes a village to train for a marathon!

I seen on the Dublin marathon facebook page that there is less than 100 days to go still plenty of time. A heads up that if you haven’t got an entry and you haven’t arranged a transfer with anyone that race entries are going on sale tomorrow (Monday 22nd July) at 12 midday.

Link: https://eventmaster.ie/event/edKPIrKF8x

One again we ask that you provide us with a little review of week 4 just passed:

- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

- Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?

- Are your friends/family fed up of listening to you talk about running and the marathon yet? Actually have you told people you are running the marathon? What do they think? Mothers seem to worry about it funny enough. When my husband was training for his marathons my mother in law wasn’t best pleased, thought he was putting his body under too much stress but yet when I was training for Dublin last year she was looking for weekly updates on my long runs! My own mother a few weeks ago upon me mentioning Dublin marathon training said what are you doing that for, sure didn’t you do it last year?!

We look ahead to week 5:

As you'll notice, there are sizable increases in mileage for both plans this week, with the Hal Higdon long run hitting double figures for the first time. This will be unchartered territory for those on this plan - keep the paces easy as advised and you'll be fine. One of the Novices posted the other day about their worry of a jump in mileage and the replies by marathon2020 and TheRef are worth a read. Again the boards crew have strides this week - the majority of the run should be at easy pace with the strides ideally towards the end. Keep the pace on your strides controlled - they should not be a flat out sprint. Focus on form, relaxing the shoulders, and importantly allowing full recovery between strides.

Just to refresh you on strides:

Strides are a running drill which will get you used to picking up the pace on tired legs without leaving your legs wrecked! In this case the strides prescribed should be 100m or 20-30 seconds long. We recommend you do the strides towards the end of your run preferably on a flat stretch of even road. These are not intended to induce fatigue, so allow for full recovery after each before attempting the next one. Jogging back to the start after each stride should allow sufficient recovery, but take longer if required. You can include these in the prescribed mileage or you can add them on as a little bit extra - either option is ok.

Each stride consists of 3 equal parts:

- controlled acceleration

- sustained speed of up to 90% of your max speed

- controlled deceleration

The important thing is to focus on form throughout; stay relaxed and run tall, watch that the shoulders aren’t being hunched/tensed up! Remember these are not a sprint, you should feel in control on the pace!

Best of luck for week 5!!

Sunny Dayz · 22-07-2024 8:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122409234#Comment_122409234

Well done. Just keep a little eye on the knee this coming week, keep up the mobility work and foam rolling and don't be afraid to take a run as easy instead of tempo if needs be. Best of luck for the week ahead.

comanche_cor · 22-07-2024 9:51am

So the week gone back was deload week, happy to have deload week to focus on S&C and physio exercise. Happy that I got everything my plan in with all the runs in the order prescribed ;).

Mon: Fully Body S&C

Tue: Cycle to work, 26k

Wed: 2M TT, really enjoyed this, got faster as the Ks went by and finished the last K above Runna's suggested pace. Total 5.5k

Thurs: Intervals, enjoyed this also, intervals got faster as the session went on, felt the pace was just right for me and finished the last interval thinking I could not do another, Total 6k

Fri: Lower S&C

Sat: 5K easy, did a parkrun

Sun: 10k - really focused on staying in the middle of zone two for this. Did think on a route with some slight hills as I often worry that where I train is too flat.

Sun: Yoga

This Week:

Plan | Monday | Tuesday | Wednesday | Thursday | Friday | Saturday | Sunday
Runna | S&C | Tempo 5K | S& | Intervals 6.5 | Mobility | 7K Easy | 18k (7k at MP)

This weeks looks like a though one with some hard intervals, but looking forward to clocking up a few extra K this week in the long run and testing out marathon pas a part of long run.

Have stocked up on high fives electrolytes and plan to work on hydration. Gonna go to one of the running shops this week and pick up a few different gels to try out over the next few long runs and see what suits.

As to marathon talk - I have let friends and family know I have started the training and hope to make it to the start line if I can avoid injury. Hoping that if I can get through this next block of training that I am there of there about volume wise and with a reduced risk of injury, there'll be no excuses then ;)

rosenallis · 22-07-2024 11:03am

- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

Mixed week. Had some annoying pain in lower leg and calf so i went to physio before it got worse. Told me to hold back on any longs runs for a week so i've missed a 8.5M run on Sunday, and potentially a 10M next Sunday. These were my biggest to date and was looking forward to challenge. What's the best way to 'catch up' as when i'm due to go back it's 12m and that seems a big jump from 7m longest!

- Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?

Yes, two speed ones during the week which went well (seemed too easy if i'm being honest). The long run didnt work out and had planned to try marathon pace. Will have to be guided by physio but i'm tempted to run

SimpleDimple · 22-07-2024 10:21pm

- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
No. after the half last Sunday I took it easy this week. I just did one 3 miler on Wednesday, then managed a 11 mile on Saturday. Now with the half put to bed I am on the marathon plan proper

- Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?
Yes

- Are your friends/family fed up of listening to you talk about running and the marathon yet? Actually have you told people you are running the marathon?

I have told a few actually, it has been a good motivation to stay off the pints which I’m really enjoying. Up before 8 on a Saturday for a banana and coffee before heading out is becoming a nice ritual (and home for a scone and a nap before lunchtime is even better!)

slingerz · 23-07-2024 9:03pm

was away on holidays last week so got the runs in but the weekend long run was a disaster. 33 degree heat does not help with the motivation not to mind lack of ability to run.

Been struggling with the uptick in mileage tbh and almost quelling my motivation to follow the plan. Got out today for the 3 miles though and have come up with a route in the locality for 10 miles. Being rural it’s not easy to find a route for long runs so might have to go on tour over the next couple of weeks to get the mileage in, that’s if I can stay the course

Sunny Dayz · 23-07-2024 9:48pm

did anyone who was looking to buy a marathon entry get one yesterday before they sold out?
Transfers are opening tomorrow morning for a month. If you are getting an entry by transfer - please make sure it’s genuine. Many scammers about online.

Mantis Toboggan · 23-07-2024 10:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418094#Comment_122418094

Yeah I managed to get a ticket. Was a bit torn as I'm still struggling with injury and a long way behind on my training but said I better get it just in case things start to come right for me.

Can I transfer it down the line if things don't Work out?

2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

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