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The decline of FG?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,199 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Interesting that there is such an exodus considering how well they did in the recent Locals and Euros. I wonder if there's something they know that we don't, I'm still convinced LV stepping down is due to a big bad new story that hasn't surfaced yet



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I would say Leo V just realizes he made himself very unpopular with many FG voters, as evidenced by the jump in popularity again for his party as soon as he left office. And good to see Harris over in England sipping a pint of the black stuff yesterday evening ( great product placement for our Guinness, and hopefully by extension tourism to Dublin's Guinness visitor attraction ). There is hope that the damage to the UK-Ireland relationship in recent years can be repaired.

    Post edited by Francis McM on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Definitely no surprise, and tbh I think a big part of the decision is being gay. While people are very accepting of it now there are aspects of the lifestyle that a lot would be uncomfortable with for a politician. References to Kylie and Love Actually in Downing street are tips of the iceberg.

    I think he just wants to be a gay man now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,199 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    We shall see, keeping one eye on the breaking news to see what leaks.

    Let's be clear as well about the damage done to the UK-Ireland relationship, it was not damaged by anything said or done by any politician from this side of the water (maybe with an exception to the DUP) and won't be repaired by any politician from this side either



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    I think in all reality only Leo or Simon could think that. Not surprised they are edging out of FG. FG's popularity with their voters suffered during their reign. Leo and Simon certainly damaged relations with the British and northern Unionists. Leo being "the most pro-unity leader in Fine Gael’s history", as Tommy Gorman said, did not help. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/22/leo-varadkar-brexiters-irish-politics-ireland-taoiseach



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Leo and Simon were the leaders who brought Jeffrey Donaldson to their party conference where he got a standing ovation.

    Within a short period it was Jeffrey and the DUP who repaid that 'kindness' by stoking rhetoric which led to both Coveney and Varadkar being threatened physically and with an actual attempt on Coveney's life.
    Much as I disagree with FG, it is not they who need to build bridges. Once the DUP get finished building bridges they spectacularly burned with their own government and elements of their own community they need to begin re-building the bridges they burned here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,199 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    FG's popularity with their voters suffered during their reign.

    Really? I thought they did a fantastic job for their voters. Harris on the other hand seems to be much too liberal for the traditional FG voter. Just my 2 cents



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Leo stepped down in April, some people online have floating this so called "big bad story" since before he resigned yet none of them can provide any information on it and most now have moved onto the next nonsense they have dreamt up

    We had a few questionable accounts trying t push the same story and then of course the big reveal never happened

    If the media had a big bad story maybe you can explain why they are not releasing it? after all he is now gone and has also confirmed he won't run in next election. What is stopping them?

    Or more likely, it is bulls**t. When you read some of the stuff on this thread you can see people just imagine up stuff and then declare it is the truth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    If you want to build towards a United Ireland then yes parties on both side of the border need to work together and get their opinion on Ireland and how they see the future

    Why wouldn't FG invite him to their party conference? that was in 2019.

    Just because he was attending their conference doesn't mean they automatically agree with him or his party.

    You will also find FF have done online discussion with politicians from Northern Ireland.

    At least they have some cop on and some ability to do their job, not the bickering sh*t and incompetence you see from other parties. You can figure out which party I mean by that yourself



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You making up stuff I said again?

    I didn't say anything about 'automatically agreeing with him or his party'.

    The only parties in the north who refuse to discuss the future with others can be divined from the Ireland's Future conference, list of participants, every political party in Ireland were there except the DUP, TUV and UUP. They were too busy bickering among themselves while once again the world moved on without them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,901 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What I think the DUP attendance at the FG conference shows is that there is an avenue for dialogue between unionists and nationalists. The key point is that if SF are involved at any point, the dialogue fails.

    Many have said that the involvement of SF is the key blockage to progress on a united Ireland. The fact that the DUP could attend an FG conference, but not a SF conference, only confirms that.

    Portraying the DUP attendance as a bad things (as some have tried to do) is the height of stupidity as dialogue is the way forward, first towards a shared island, and in time, to consider other options.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Many have said that the involvement of SF is the key blockage to progress on a united Ireland. 

    I nearly fell off my chair.

    The key blockage is successive governments who have failed miserably to live up to our constitutional aspiration and to come up with a plan/proposal.
    They are getting braver on that though and the great bandwagon recognisers - Fine Gael - are almost there.

    They (FF and FG) will be turning up at more discussions on the future, no doubt in my mind about that.

    The DUP/TUV will resist in their Never Never Never fashion up to and after constitutional change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You haev yet to get any predictions right yet continue to make them constantly

    You have no idea what the TUV/DUP will do long term

    The only way forward is dialogue and cross border project

    Not the PSF way which is …..well ou described it lovely above. Let's do f**k all, not talk to everyone and blame everyone else when it doesn't work

    Incompetence

    PSF should move out of the way and let the politicians get on with it, they can bicker with themselves



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You can only 'talk' to the willing.

    Again I'll ask but you'll ignore it because you hate the implications and you don't like being wrong.

    Who was at the conference organised by Ireland's Future and who wasn't?

    Were ALL the major political parties on this island there and were the DUP/TUV/UUP absent?

    Who has refused to attend all island talks on everything from Animal Health, Brexit and walked out of the British?Irish strand of the GFA?

    Who wants to talk and who doesn't Clo?

    BTW: Apparently the conspiracy theorists here reckon the Ireland's Future conference which had EVERY major political party bar the TU/DUP/UUP present was organised by SF - so I expect them to challenge your assertion that SF are 'doing nothing'.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,901 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What Sinn Fein fear most is that any open dialogue must have no predetermined outcome. They are so wedded to the idea of a united Ireland, in the same way that the DUP are wedded to the UK only outcome, that open dialogue about the future is difficult. What @FrancieBrady and SF want is a closed dialogue with the only possible goal of a united Ireland. No unionist or other nationalist party is going to take a part in that charade, which is why their initiatives constantly fail.

    This is what is so much better about the Shared Island Initiative. That is based on the only reality - we share a small island. What political outcomes result in the longer run, result from the coming together of people to openly think and openly discuss with no preconditions. The binary closed ideas of the GFA were necessary at the time to get buy in from terrorists. With the passing of time, the opening of dialogue to broaden the discussion is more necessary than ever. This government has repeatedly shown to take a mature view on this, unlike the warmongerers singing rebel songs in the pub or at the election count centre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Again, the facts contradict you.

    Several people at the Future Ireland conference spoke openly about how they opposed a UI and preferred the existing arrangements, there was no rancour or anger and their views were listened to.
    SF make no secret that they want a UI, but have taken part in debates and discussions that include other outcomes.
    They, like others want the chance to persuade and that requires the responsible body - The government of the day - to come up with a plan.
    After that, let those who wish to stay in the Union or who want a federal solution or who want a UI, persuade the electorate in NORMAL democratic fashion.

    Leo Varadkar at least knows that the time has come.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,901 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The facts contradict you - the government are planning - for a shared island. These are the details that matter.

    That is all that is needed for now. When that is shown to work, other things may come on the table.

    Like SF policies, Future Ireland is long on hyperbole and short on details and common sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Didn't Donaldson go to the FG conference? so thats willing isn't it



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not to discuss but to put the case for us rejoining the Commonwealth. He got a standing ovation but I think subsequent events showed FG that they are great buddies only as long as they are getting their way.
    SF and anyone who dealt with them have known that for a long time. Theresa May and Boris found out too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    As I already said they don't have to agree with him

    At least they talk, sticking fingers in ears and acting like children doesn't work



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,901 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Again what SF fail to see is that talking leads to results.

    All the posturing about we have to plan for a united Ireland only pushes people away. A sit-down with all options on the table is the only real way forward. That is scary for Sinn Fein as it means the restricted binary options are opened out.

    To be fair to the people of Northern Ireland, most of them have figured this out. This is why the proportion for a united Ireland is stuck below 40% (other than in the fevered aftermath of Brexit).



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    As I said many times, anyone who wants a United Ireland is sadly mistaken if they think PSF will achieve it. They will be still here in 100 year bikcering with every party in Ireland and trying to change their history



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,901 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The way they are going they won't be here in 100 years. Their latest attempt at an immigration policy appears to be nothing more than dog-whistling to the racists with little detail and crazy unimplementable ideas. It won't be enough for the right-wing racists and it will put off those of us with a conscience.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And who is ignoring that and screaming about ‘sectarian’ funding only the denizens of the DUP and TUV. Even funding for a road and a bridge were deemed to be ‘sectarian’.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    FG have been in government for 14 years, and will be in government after the next election. That’s the reality of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 239 ✭✭mehico


    I wouldn't agree with your point about all the posturing for a plan.

    All political parties recognise the importance of planning:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2024/0716/1460216-united-ireland-committee/



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭Augme


    Three nights in a row there has been a fire at the Crown Paints site in Coolock. Multiple Garda injured in the riots and the GRA serious issues with their officers being put in danger. This can't be helpful to a party who are desperate to project a strong image on law and order.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,417 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ah fg will be grand come ge time, theyll have ff to keep them propped up, nothing to be worrying about…..



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,095 ✭✭✭BQQ


    But they are also desperate to be seen as tough on immigration, so they stand back twiddling thumbs while these nutters burn buildings and attack people living in tents




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    THE OWNER OF the former Crown Paints site in Coolock earmarked for asylum seekers has received over €23 million from the Department of Children since last year for the provision of accommodation of Ukrainians and international protection applicants. 

    Pity our children didn't receive services of 23 Million euro!!! Yet we pay high taxes.

    Living the life



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