Donald Trump the Megathread part II - threadbans and mod warnings in OP
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The fact is that anyone who tries to not say anything anti Trump is labled on boards as an apologist.
Regarding saying "positive" things about Trump, I am not saying we have to come here and say how shiny his teeth are. But look at the assassination thread. People genuinely replied "I cant stop smiling". You can talk about a subject without it just being "everyone who supports Trump is a Rape Apologist". I mean what sane person would even bother getting into an actual discussion. In fact I was on here yesterday and had some back and forward. People didnt agree with me and that is fine. Its called debate. I was reported and warned for saying someone was "talking rubbish" (I sh*t you not). But I am not questioning mods. I am sure that was an infraction. But for someone to report that just shows the level of maturity. I was called "dull" and compared to a white supremacist just because someone didnt agree with me.
I have given you one of my points and instead of discussing it, you are saying I am throwing insults around. I mean if you are getting offended by my insult of "not a serious poster around here" then ffs this place is lost!!!1 -
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But the problem is all the negative stuff doesnt mean anything.
Lets say everyone here decided we were going to put together the replacement for Joe Biden.
Are we going to just choose someone who we think is a good choice and take our chances
or
Do we try to understand what we can do better with our message.
Sure we can say "but Trump did this" but his base doesnt care. As you said. So how do we get through to those people. When I said "it doesnt mean anything", I mean its a lazy excuse (no offense intended. Not aimed at you personally). Its like saying "sure we cant win the Premier League because Man City cheated". I mean sure, you are right (probably), but saying that isnt going to win the PL.
If people are willing to ignore "Lies, Corruption, fraud, sexual assault and ripping off charities" they must believe that the other side are doing the exact same or worse. There has to be a reason they ignore that stuff. So when debating it, instead of calling someone an apologist, have you found out what they think about the Dems? Because it is 100% not just because Biden is old. If it was then why wouldnt they vote for Harris as replacement? Why not Hilary? Why not Newsome, Pritzker, Whitemer? Its not just Biden!
Stop being blinded by the line "I am not a Trump fan but……….". Some people genuinely are not and are like to see both sides. I am not a flat earther but I have watched multiple docs about it because I find them insane. It is normal to ask questions about things you dont agree with.0 -
Has Trump just recently seen silence of the lambs or something? The mentions of hannibal lecter are odd
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What does it matter about you having a more positive attitude to him, am assuming most here can't even vote against or for him so who cares…..he's not woke at all not pc at all so will never fly for a certain demographic, the type who like to talk the most others are just a little bored of all that
Is he a likeable man is Biden? what politicians are truly ever likeable ….what is fact is he'll get multi millions of votes in his favour (as will Biden) why? doesn't really need explaining to you you're not that important
Could those with 'post after post of discussion negative to Trump' ever debate or critique the man the same way in person? I doubt it I doubt it very much, but will talk on the internet till the cows come home for sure ….C'est la vie
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How many posts did you have yesterday calling me a liar for saying Trump is a rapist? Ignoring the fact I never said convicted rapist. You wanted to discuss this but only on yours terms, that he wasn't convicted of it so it's alright.
What are the ten bad things you mentioned he did but didn't elaborate on? Let's discuss those
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A minor point, but you seem to think that 'apologist' is in some way insulting. It simply means someone defending an argument that is controvertial, you cannot deny that he is controvertial, there would be no discussion otherwise. If you like I will substitute 'the people who are arguing for Trump' rather than apologist, but it means the same thing.
Anyway, you are telling us to try to understand why Trump is so popular and Leroy 42 has given you a list of reasons. So do we just say, oh, right, now we understand, or are we allowed to debate how irrational these reasons are.
You have answered yourself in your last post:
Stop being blinded by the line "I am not a Trump fan but……….". Some people genuinely are not and are like to see both sides. I am not a flat earther but I have watched multiple docs about it because I find them insane. It is normal to ask questions about things you dont agree with.
Right, many of us do not like (respect/ agree with/ follow) Trump but we have watched multiple docs/ news items/ videos about him because we find the whole situation insane. It is normal to ask questions about things you don't agree with.
Exactly.
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No matter what side you fall on, Day 4 of the RNC was clever. A lot of it was the "humanisation of Trump". His grand daughters speech was pretty powerful in that. A lot of the speeches was people talking about Trump the person. Trying to give the non media side. Of course people on here wont need any of that to make up their minds (on either side). But the undecided out there it could give a lot of weight.
When we dont like someone we find it hard to think about them as a person. I dont like Cristiano Ronaldo. If someone told me he ignored a kid looking for an autograph I would easily believe it and call him a c**t. But the truth is it may not have even happened. Its how we are all built. If you dont like Biden you will do the same. If you dont like Trump you will do the same. When it comes to an assassination attempt people will discuss a lot of stuff but very likely ignore the person. They wont think about the fact that his kids and grandkids were watching this. His friends were praying to their God that he would be ok. They also dont think about the struggles that Trump has had in his life. The moments of empathy he has shown. They think of "grab her by the p***y". They dont think about the moments he was there for his friends. The moments he would have shown up for people around him who have had loved ones sick or pass away. They dont think about the person. Same goes for Biden by the way. Maybe not as bad because he has had big struggles play out in public (the death of his son for example). Its just something I found interesting about the other night.0 -
So calling you a liar is a reportable offense? You said he was a rapist. I dont believe I said you were a liar (maybe I did) but I said he was never convicted of rape so he is not a rapist. Lets not get that going again though. I am sure nobody wants that reboot. We both agree he wasnt convicted. You say he is a rapist. I say he is a sex offender. By arguing any further on it is pointless.
You can go back and look at the "ten bad things" for context if you would like. Or you can take my word for it that it is in reference to a Chris Rock quote that he said to Piers Morgan. I dont have the quote open nor will I be looking for it. If you want to google it, work away. I dont think its important enough to bother as it doesn't change the point.
He said something along the lines of "Trump is the type of guy, that if he did 10 bad things, dont say he did 11. Because he will just argue about that 11th thing".
Not that difficult to understand. Not even that inciteful tbh. But it is a good point. When you pick on something pedantic and make more of it than actually is, the opposition will just say you are wrong or that you are exaggerating. Then before you know it you are still talking about something that didnt even really happen while forgetting the things that did.But here's the thing buddy. I would have come back yesterday after i finished work except people decided they dont like people with opposing views. Despite the stuff said against me I seem to be the only one not welcomed on that thread!!
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and I welcome and enjoy debating the insanity of it all 100%
But the sheer mention of anything that isnt a dig at Trump is met with "Trump apologist" type replies. Just look at one of the replies this evening to me
"I bet none of you even know why trump is popular"
Ok, why is he popular?
"I don't know"
😂
There is no welcoming of people who dont go by the company line. Just a ganging up culture. Most people wont give real answers. They just spam the replies with things like above. Or literally just calling someone a Trump apologist (not aimed at you).As I replied to Leroy, his post is really good and makes great points. But the problem is he cant help but allude to the negative troupes. The excuses. The things that raise more questions than answer.
Such as "why" do Trump supporters ignore the "lies, fraud, sexual assault" etc? Because just saying that they ignore it, whitewashes the reason they ignore it. I believe there is more in it than that. The average joe wont just ignore a billionaire white guys s***y acts because they feel bad for him.
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The problem is that we can't think of him as a nice person because there has been little to nothing nice ever coming out of his mouth (from a left leaning perspective) to demonstrate that.
My first experience of Trump in a political sense was the birth cert conspiracy with Obama. Nothing positive there.
Then during his first term he lied, lied and, guess what, lied again. From claiming inauguration numbers early on to claiming the election was fraudulent at the end, he never seemed to be straight with the people. Granted, most politicians spin stuff, but don't come out with pure lies as often as he did.
Answering any difficult question with fake news wasn't endearing either.
Not paying bills. Claiming the election was a fraud in public but never claiming it in court. Using phrases line poisoning the blood. Being convicted of fraud. Being found liable for sexual assault. I believe he also can't be involved with a charity. Not calling the family of the person killed at his rally in the immediate aftermath.
There is very little public evidence to show him as a good person in the global sense. Not good in the sense that some people see destroying the environment as good and will see someone agreeing with them as good. Not good in the sense of trying to help people who are struggling, except by throwing kitchen towels at them. But genuinely trying to improve the well being of most people in their own country, or world, by making access to libraries and actual education easier, by making access to healthcare easier, by trying to make water and air cleaner.
Outside of the assassination attempt, which was horrific, can we really say he has had much in the way of troubles that weren't of his own making? Was given a crap ton of money. Went bankrupt and was given more. Got elected president, had lots of executive time, was kicked out of the job and managed to grift off people with t shirts, merchandise, and more since by claiming victimisation. Didn't co-operate with the authorities and faced charges over classified documents rather than just handing them back like others did.
Where is the positive shining light and human Trump that is a positive influence on the world?
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ou say he is a rapist. I say he is a sex offender
You are both right.He is a rapist and also a sex offender.
An equal opportunities criminal.
(Who has yet to pay the financial penalty to the woman he attacked-because he feels it was a "perfectly fine assault")
A bit like his buddy Giuliani who has the gall to refuse to take responsibility for his defamation of the two election workers and cough up the money he owes them.
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Trump went on MSNBC's Morning Joe in 2011 and claimed he'd sent people to Hawaii who 'couldn't believe what they're finding.'
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/birther-bonkers-donald-trump_n_846051
I always find it funny that you have all these Trump supporters who accuse CNN et al of lying but hang on Trump's every word when he tells absolute see-thru whoppers like the above.
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A lot in there and a lot of stuff I agree with.
The Obama stuff goes back way before Trump. He certainly mentioned it but it really wasnt important as he never went against him for President. Its an old conservative conspiracy theory that was banded about for years before that.
As for the lies. I hear this a lot! The lies. Did you read the "fact checker" sites for the debate? Calling Trump out on lies (some harshly to be fair where he might have been slighty off on figures) but calling Bidens answers "mistruths". There is an exaggeration at times about his "lies". Inauguration numbers? He had huge numbers. Did he exagerate them? Maybe. Did Biden? Yes. Did Obama? Yes. But not just demos, all new presidents do. Its like a right of passage to say you got a billion people to show up.
The "fake news" was a term started by Hillary Clinton (Actually was used way before her also but in this context). SHe said it in reference to the "emails" that Trump said she had on her phone or laptop (cant remember which but you may recall the story). The story was all over facebook. She claimed this was all fake news by faker account which she continued to blame on Russia. While we often talk about how Trump didnt concede the election, either did the Dems. They spent his whole term trying to stonewall him. They cited "not my president" for 4 years and held investigations into Russia interfering. Is he wrong for acting like a spoilt 3 year old and not congratulating Biden? Yes. But lets not pretend the dems were gracious 4 years earlier. There was constant clashes from anti trumpers when he became president. Not to the Jan 6th degree thankfully. But again, claiming it didnt happen is just wrong.
I do not like Donald Trump. Now most people will say I am full of s*** and I support Trump because I am "defending" him. But the truth is I am living in Ireland. I do not have a vote in this election. It literally does not matter if I support him or not. Me saying I do not support him or that I do not like him, literally doesnt matter. It is just me trying to explain my position so you get an understanding of where I am coming from. If you dont believe that, it is all good. It doesnt change anything.
I dont like him because I think he represents that entitled rich white guy persona that we all think of when we think of "me 2" and the bank bailouts. I dont like him and think he probably has taken advantage of his money and power and looks (anyone who says he was always an ugly man is insane. He was a pretty boy rich guy back in the 80's/90's). He was/is a business man who isnt worried about upsetting anyone. He very much took advantage of people with things like Trump University (its exactly the same as Taits university. Or whatever that nut case calls it).
But he has also done a lot of great things way before he went into politics. New Yorkers loved 90's Trump. He bought failing companies and saved many of them. I'm sure he also vulture funded a few as they went belly up. But he did a lot of good for a lot of companies that would have went bust. Look at Doolin. The locals love him because his Investment helped their community. He has done that world wide.You can argue that, that is business and doesn't represent the "human Trump". You would be correct. I think his problem has been we dont see Trump the person. We only see the guy who lost loads of money and was given more money. We dont know the personal stuff. Maybe he is to blame for not sharing that. But that was my point about the other night. It was a glimpse into his world. If you saw it you will know what I mean. If you didn't, it was basically people who used to work for him, some still do. Friends and family. Other personalities, all talking about him as a person. Sure they could all be liars (i doubt it) but it was good strategy.
Also in all of what you and others have said, you have never pointed out what he actually did in his time in office.
He has moved America away from being the world police and started to move them more on their own development.
We were told that if he ever became president he would start WW3. There was less war in his time than any other since the 80's? Again, he started to move America out of global conflicts (some will see that as a bad thing, but many Americans would not).His administration pushed through legislation making it easier to punish financial fraud (I bet he regrets that🤣)
His was the first administration to actually audit the Pentagon. Nobody held the defense budget accountable before then.His tax cuts we will never know if they were a good idea or not as Covid hit too soon afterwards. The pro sides think it would have put money in the pockets of the normal joe soap. The anti think it was only going to help the rich. Economists will always be split.
He was responsible for cutting down (not able to fully eliminate) "robo calls". No other administration even bothered before that.He did also try to eliminate Obama care but accidentally improved it 😂 more people actually because entitled to it. He never meant that though.
He also wanted to stop the pro climate crisis policies. People will be split on whether thats good or bad.
This was all while being stonewalled as much as possible by the dems and told he was not their president. This is a few things off the top of my head while thinking that I cant come up with that much for Biden. Biden has undone some of the stuff he didnt agree with such as student debt and health care.
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I definitely dislike Trump a lot. But your assertions here are almost all, if not entirely, bs. Trump was a lauging stock in NYC, hated by the ordinary construction guys for stiffing them on jobs, and the 'elites' for his tawdry 'aesthetic'.
He totally abused his position to manipulate the stock market throughout his tenure. When he wasn't doing that he was golfing. Millions dead in the pandemic. Divided the nation. Pandered to despots. It's done to death at this stage. When you start looking at G.W. Bush in a sympathetic light you know the bar has hit the floor.
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Fair play for reading that god awfully long post. I apologise!!!
To say its all BS though is harsh. He was responsible for a lot of construction in New York in the 90's……… As for the Elites, he was def a show off and I would completely agree with not liking him. But the "elites" all acted like that.Which of his companies made money as a result of manipulating the stock market?
Blaming him for people dying during covid is insane. Sure the bleach thing was stupid. Most global leader acted like complete morons during covid. Only Jacinta seemed to get any praise and even she turned into a nut.I think everyone can see that double-ya (W in reference to his bio movie) is trying to let people forget what a moron he was.
I just think its insane that a nation of 300 million people cant find 2 decent candidates to run. But as I said before, there is no real difference. Both parties are backed by the same donors. Both like guns, God, closed borders, private sectors, Foreign investment and the stock market. Its just he amount of "like" that varies for each. No matter who gets in, nothing of substance will ever really change. Kids will shoot up schools. People will continue to OD on the street. Corporation's will continue to get rich off of misery.
The Dems and Reps believe in the same things. But they give an illusion of choice. If you are Christian vote right. If you are liberal vote left. If Trump was in Texas he would be a democrat. Thats how weird their politics is. Whats extreme left in the south is barely left and almost right in the north.0 -
None of it is surprising, or should be. If we look at our own politicians; Michael Lowry, convicted fraudster, tops the poll. Bertie Ahern, unquestionably dubious dealings, potentially running for president.
The UK just got rid of the fcuking Tories.
France has Marine Le Pen. Up to her neck in fraud and corruption, her father an ex paratrooper who tortured Algerian civilians during the war of independence.
Narendra Modi in India is an sectarian authoritarian. Basically an Indian fascist. At least the swastika is Hindu.
In the Philippines, Rodrigo Duerte had 12000 slum dwellers murdered Current president of the Philippines, Bongbong Marcos, is the son of kleptocrat Ferdinand.
Spain had Franco. Chile Pinochet. Italy Benito. All within living (just) memory.
Josef Stalin had up to 9 million civilians murdered and millions more incarcerated in gulags but he's still a hero to many, and totally revered in Georgia to this day. Putin is Putin.
I won't go on. But these people thrive on fear and hate. The Republican party in the US is no different. Trump is just a figure head. That bile will endure. Vance will make sure of that.
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Look Redliketoast, I undrstand you are going down the moderate route here. I get the 'both sides' thing. I don't agree with it, but I get it. It's a bit talking out both sides of your mouth though imo.
I understand that I undersand very, very little. It's just such a massively complicated mille feuille with a million different pulls, inflections, pushes and deflections. But, at its core it's quite simple. Do good or do harm. Tolerance or bigotry, unite or division.
MAGA is prejucice, bigotry, intolerance, envy, bitterness, blame, unwillingness to accept responsibility, lack of self awareness, self loathing, abuse, abused, abuser, projection, regret.
Trump is the representative, the personification of division.
Ten years ago a Republican and a Democrat could be civil, even have a beer and the craic. That's finished.
Lots of things 'of substance' have improved under the Biden / Dems administration. The 'deep state' worked well. Look at renewables, student debt forgiveness (a further 1.2 billon just a couple of days ago), record employment, huge improvements in infrastructure, negating medical debt as being considered as 'bad debt', Biden admin has tried passing numerous acts but is constantly stymied by Republicans, who, it seems, do not want Biden to get credit for any of these improvements. Including securing the southern border, one of the core MAGA catchcries.
As to the stocks question, I don't know if 'his companies' made money. But I am absolutely sure people close to him made money. Hundreds of millions, maybe more. He was POTUS, tweeting about trade embargos, restrictions, tariffs, energy policy. The market is jittery, he had the power to influence entire sectors and he abused it. Even this past week tech is down due to his statements in interviews, and he's not even in power yet.
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In subsequent posts from this one you have expanded on aspects of Trump that you disagree on so I'll leave that in this reply, they can be discussed separately.
it wasn't me that reported you. I don't believe I have ever reported a post on boards, and I don't tend to hit the ignore button either as it slants the reading of a thread in my eyes.
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As odious as Trump is he is seen as a better option for half the electorate than a career politician- whatever or whoever is put up against him.
That’s what hasn’t been debated in 9 years now.
Highlighting his endless transgressions or just dismissing his voters as uneducated or racist constantly isn’t serious debate and more pertinently isn’t working !0 -
Re last paragraph, the two are not mutually exclusive
Anyways it’s hard to keep up with all the blabbering the orange turd does daily
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Ref Trump's winning the 2016 election, my memory and understanding is that the Dems came to the conclusion afterwards that one reason they lost to Trump was that Hilary didn't visit enough states, didn't do enough stumping to energize the electorate, and they assumed that the locals would turn out like clockwork as usual to vote for the Democrat ticket, which didn't happen.
As for Tump's popularity versus that of the regular GOP Washington crew, I don't know how large an effect, if any, that would have had on a "lets try this new guy" basis amongst the GOP voters, seeing as how the regulars were prepared, on a weird form of partisanship, to let Trump stand for the party. I have to assume they must have got some sort of "Trump is popular" feedback from the different GOP parties at states level to commit each other, as rivals, to support Trump, even if it was by default.
Post edited by aloyisious on2 -
If you're an employee of Doonbeg you might as well state as much and then go and watch this because if it's about who pays your wages it's crucial to discussion. (timestamped for you)
Trump was born butt ugly just btw.
Use your mighty arms to slay the fierce enemy that is selfish desire
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No matter what side you fall on, Day 4 of the RNC was clever.
Was this the day that Dana White, Kid Rock & Hulk Hogan were on? You think that was clever? All it did was possibly reinforce his base, but he drew no undecideds with those stunts, but potentially lost a few.
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Join Date:Posts: 33234
It's because about 50% of Americans will believe just about anything and won't/can't do basic independant research.
Case in point: pizzgate.
Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.
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Don't ever think that Trump has anything other than himself in mind in everything he does. He has no interest in his family, the Democrat supporting American people and definitely not the Republican supporting American people, doesn't care one bit about the Firefighter that died at his recent rally or that man's family, no interest in the people that are subjected to horrific conditions in those countries that he supports their despots or dictators, no interest in women or people of colour, gay or trans, people fleeing those despots, they are vermin remember. This man cares for nothing but himself, we know that, the evidence is there, most can see it.
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Still apologists about the rapist?
Consider the following. If Donald Trump (or anyone else for that matter) penetrated you with their penis or their finger or with an object despite your objections and did it without your consent then would you feel you were raped? Of course you would.
The only thing differentiating an actual act of rape is the legal definition of rape in the state where it happened i.e. the victim has to be catergorical that they were raped by the penis of the rapist.
Anywhere else and the exact same act is rape. So, to anyone not willingly engaging in mental gymnastics, he can be deemed a rapist. The only counter can be that he isn't a rapist according to the law but rather a sexual assaulter. One would need to give their head a wobble if they genuinely think that somehow gives him a reprieve.
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”Trump 2025: my guys penis is too small for a jury to confirm he’s a rapist under NY law”
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Tried writing a response with quotes and news articles but keeps getting lost and not saved in drafts.
The birth cert stuff may have been around before Trump but it doesn't make him look like a good human if he gets involved.
From politico, Trump responded, “CNN is fake news. I don’t take questions from CNN.” Hilary may have used the phrase fake news but Trump used it anytime there was a question he didn't like.
This is getting into he did it, no she did it, no he did it territory, but the Republicans weren't exactly cooperative with Obama, stonewalling him at every step. In terms of conceding, there are these quoting Clinton clearly conceding the election. Trump still claims it was stolen. Not supporting a president is different to not conceding.
https://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501425243/watch-live-hillary-clinton-concedes-presidential-race-to-donald-trump
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/clinton-concedes-to-trump-we-owe-him-an-open-mind-231118.
My point was that Trump never shows his human side. A side which I would consider to be compassionate, empathetic and looking to improve the lives of people. If you are incompetent and mess up your goal of dismantling Obamacare and actually improve it, that is not showing a human side. If you get rid of climate agreements that look to control the impact of climate change on the world, that is not looking to improve the lives of people.
The tax cuts were big on corporation tax, but from the BBC
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42205181
Most Americans across all income levels would see modest tax breaks until 2026 and the committee said after that families earning under $75,000 a year would likely face higher taxes.
And from the same article, regarding health insurance...
Some opponents highlighted a measure that would end a requirement introduced under Obamacare for most taxpayers to buy health insurance or face a fine. According to the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, scrapping the mandate would push up insurance premiums and lead to 13 million people losing cover by 2027.
People on low incomes likely to pay higher taxes is not a good thing when corporation tax was slashed.
Auditing the Pentagon is a good step, but I would imagine that North Korean leadership, Russian leadership, and Chinese leadership occasionally audit stuff. Not showing humanity here.
Covid, yeah, many if not all world leaders made mistakes, but Trump needed to take centre stage. Needed to be out in front rather than letting experts lead. Cut funding to the CDC. Had no plans in place to distribute health care items, kept down playing it, made states battle and contact him directly to get supplies. Nobody expected anyone to be perfect but I don't remember much in the way of compassion and empathy from Trump, just more sh1t stirring.
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