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Random EV thoughts.....

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,155 ✭✭✭witnessmenow


    Two weeks ago I did this. Pressed the assistance button on the unmanned toll and said I went through the main westbound toll earlier, he asked did I have a receipt, I said yes (expecting to have to call our a number of something) and he said ok grand and opened the barrier. I don't know if he could see me holding the receipt through a camera

    Wouldn't have known about it if it wasn't for someone mentioning on here a while back



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I just see so many people post it. I don’t use them and have no experience but it’s posted so much.

    Edit. Post above explains it better. It’s commonly known that if you come off to use them you can get back through for free.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,465 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    if you pass through the same toll both in the same direction within 3 hours of initially passing through that you don’t have to pay again apparently.

    (This only applies to tolls that you can pass twice like Enfield if you come off the ramp for the hotel and then rejoin the motorway and has the slip road booth)

    Post edited by AndyBoBandy on


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,488 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah I got stung by that years ago on the M4, was trying to get to the Applegreen there for petrol and Google maps sent me off the motorway to a field behind the motorway services. Has to go back to the toll gates at the ramp and if course they're unmanned, so ended up paying twice

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭CivilEx


    At the risk of going off topic talking about tolls, I'm in the UK at the moment and when I mentioned that 1) I had to pay four tolls on my route West / East (Ballinasloe, Enfield, M50, Port tunnel) 2) There are no longer any EV toll price reductions, I was greeted with amazement that I would travel a route that would cost so much....any form of tolls on the roads are not acceptable in the UK it seems.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,583 ✭✭✭wassie


    I quote often have to do that route but with a toll also at Rings End - 10 tolls across the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,488 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    So an interesting experience I've had recently regarding destination chargers

    Went to several campsites over the past few months and did lots of driving and sightseeing around the area. One campsite had AC chargers, the other didn't and I was reliant on DC charging nearby

    I will say that surviving on DC charging is definitely doable, it's a bit more head wrecking. I found I wasn't at a low enough SoC to get max speed so it took 20-30 mins to get to 80%

    I probably could have charged less to speed things up but I didn't want to leave myself short for the next day and hadn't really planned where we were going next

    Having AC chargers onsite was a good but easier, just plug in when you get back to the campsite. Only real hassle (other than chargers not working) is having to delay wine time until the car is charged

    So I'd probably still book accommodation that has a charger over one that doesn't, all else being equal. But I certainly wouldn't avoid an area just because there's no destination charging

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,449 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Would you not just leave the car charging overnight? That's what AC destination charge points are for. And then you can enjoy your wine time straight away 😁



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    It should have, you have (i think) a 3hr reentry window going the same direction

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,488 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Well the campsite (Domaine Des Ormes) had 3 phase chargers so the car was typically done after 4-5 hours

    There were 6 chargers onsite so plenty to go around, but there were also a decent number of EVs (all Irish) looking to charge so didn't want to hog one

    If they were slower chargers I'd probably have just left the car

    Don't worry, wine time still happened after picking the car up 😁

    EDIT: I forgot to mention, I wasn't charging the full battery every time. Typically had around 40% when I plugged in and charged to 80% because at 44c/kWh why spend any extra 😱

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭innrain


    After driving on Italian motorways I said I'll never complain about Irish tolls. On two stretches I paid once 36 and once 25 plus some meager 2-3 quids at some bypasses. In fairness crossing mountains and such but still. The tolls costed more than renting the car for the day



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭funnyname


    change of plans as we have an additional passenger who isn't a great traveller so gonna go with a stop at the Circle K stop on the M6 just after Athlone. I see they have plenty of ESB and Ionity chargers, we hope to hot there for 10ish so hopefully there will be plenty free. I've registered with both and add my CC card details and also for Tesla as well so I think I'm well covered. We won't spare it on the road tomorrow so will be interesting to see if we need one or two charges.



  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Mach Two


    When you say the car cools down do you mean the cabin of the car or drive mechanism i.e. "the engine".



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,202 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭zg3409


    If you drive lots of short trips in an EV then the energy used per trip will be somewhat high. The car will try heat cabin quickly, each time and the estimated range shown on the car will be lower as it will assume all trips will be like that. If you charge your EV battery once a week you will be fine, the actual cost to fill the EV will be much cheaper than petrol or diesel but with lots of short trips the fuel cost savings may only be hundreds of euro per year compared to thousands of euro for those with a long daily commute. Short trips don't do any harm to the car nor battery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,202 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Personally especially in winter with a lot of short trips in the EV preheating the cabin and heated windscreen is a game changer for getting out quickly. Takes about 10+ mins in the our ICE. Then I can recharge it at home. I'd happily pay more for that convenience alone.

    I know some ICE cars can do that but very few and it's entirely different running an engine on your driveway with all the fumes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,449 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    And if the key is in the car in that ICE car, and it is then stolen, you are not covered by insurance. Also very bad idea to let an ICE car engine heat up by idling. Causes massive wear on the engine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,202 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I dunno if any wear is that significant. But it's a complete faff in urban environment. Such a waste of time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,488 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    The cabin and the battery

    The cabin is fairly obvious, it gets cold and the car consumes energy to warm it up

    The battery is a bit more complicated. Basically a cold battery won't deliver as much power and charges slower

    Different manufacturers have different approaches, some will limit the amount of power available until the battery warms up from driving, others use a heater to warm up the battery

    VW cars for example would heat up the battery every time the car started in temperatures below 8C which caused a range hit. They've since changed it so that it'll only heat up slowly for shorter journeys

    There's no danger to the car from driving on a cold battery, it'll take steps to protect itself using the power limits I mentioned earlier

    The main effect is that it increases consumption for short drives. In the depths of winter for example I'll typically see around 21kWh/100km on a long drive, but this can go up to 25kWh/100km when I do a bunch of short hops

    The big question is, does it matter? Not really IMO, worst case it'll make your range look pessimistic and makes your electricity bill very slightly higher

    Best way to avoid it is to preheat the car when it's plugged in. Then it'll use power from the charger to preheat and not from the battery

    Btw, diesel cars do the same crap in winter, all the fuel efficiency and emissions control systems are bypassed until the engine heats up

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,202 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That explains why they have so much fumes when heating up and clearing the windows.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Mach Two


    So an increase of approximately 20% in electricity consumption for short journeys. Still not bad though. Surely petrol or diesel would be the same.

    Out of curiosity how do you preheat the cabin in an EV. Is it a press of a button on a key fob?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Maybe not 20% but similar principle applies as ICE.

    Cabin pre heat, window defrost, battery preconditioning can all be done from your phone while lying in bed 😀



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,488 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Depends on the car, but most of them have an app that lets you start the heating and also see the charge level

    Most cars also let you set a preheating timer, so if you're leaving at 8am every day you can set the car to be nice and warm at that time. It usually defrosts the windows as well if they're icy, so no more scraping the ice off

    A lot of EVs are starting to come with seat heating as standard. It's a lot more efficient for heating the passengers than warm air so better to use them if available

    I also tend to preheat to around 23C on very cold days. The idea is that you'll want to warm up all the stuff in the cabin like the seats before leaving, otherwise they'll absorb heat while driving and increase consumption

    Never actually tested to see if it's more efficient, but getting into a warm car certainly is nice

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Mach Two


    Anyone know which cars are more reliable. A battery powered EV with very few moving parts. Or a car with an ICE with lots of moving parts.

    Is there a cooling system in an EV like an ICE. Radiator with coolant moving around the engine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,202 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    No engine, no radiator.

    Some EVs have heat pump, and some have liquid cooling for battery and some electrics.

    In general an EV should be more reliable. But it's new tech and generally new models so you'll have software bugs and teething trouble with new designs. New design of a door handle Vs one that's been in production for years. New model ICE would have the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Mach Two


    Pros and cons of buying new versus second hand EV? I presume it would be the same as an ICE vehicle bar the battery. What issues would there be?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,779 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Same but different. Same in that age and mileage still matter, different in that there are far fewer things to go wrong. The newer battery chemistries are too early in their lifespans to really know for sure what their levels of degradation might be, but signs are that they are much better than the early EVs, especially the Nissan Leaf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭Mach Two


    Can battery degradation be accurately measured?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,488 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Servicing an EV is effectively just an inspection, no oil changes, DPF filters, etc needed

    So it should be enough to check the service history to ensure it's just been regularly serviced

    Tyres, wiper blades and screen wash are the only real consumables

    Battery warranty is obviously a selling point, most cars have a warranty that is limited by time and mileage, whichever hits first. The more warranty is left then theoretically the car is more valuable

    The warranty varies by manufacturer, VW cars for example have a warranty of 8 years or 160,000km. There are some exclusions, for example some manufacturers won't cover taxis under warranty

    However if you're doing 10,000km per year you could in theory but a cheaper 2 year old EV with 100,000km on the clock and keep it for 6 years before the warranty is up

    I'd recommend getting a battery health check before buying. Most manufacturers have a way to read the battery health with an OBD11 dongle and if you're buying from a garage then they should provide this

    You can also buy your own OBD dongle to check it yourself, there's plenty of smartphone apps now that can read various EVs health status. There's also 3rd party checkers like Aviloo which will give you an estimated battery health based on data they've collected from similar vehicles

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,465 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    just on pre-conditioning a battery. One very cool feature of a Tesla in cold weather is if it needs to get heat into the battery quickly to warm it up (for fast charging), it can actually run the traction motors, even if the car is stationary, but put a load through them to generate resistance, thus generating heat, and then scavenge that heat via liquid cooling transfer manifolds, and transfer that heat into the battery cooling/heating fluid system, to warm the battery quicker…

    They've been doing this for years…. a Tesla isn't just an acceleration beast, they are engineering marvels…



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