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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Skid marks on the lane by the gate into Sophie's lawn.

    Gardaí attributed them to Shirley Foster when she first saw the body, but Shirley never mentions stopping at this point, She said she drove past the body and through the gate before she stopped. It's unlikely she would skid to a halt there and then continue on another 10-20 yards before stopping again to investigate. Those skid marks could as easily be accounted for by a car taking off at speed up the lane to turn, as skidding to a halt going down the lane.

    Did someone, a regular visitor perhaps, open the gate in the lane, drive through and park where the tyre marks are and enter Sophie's lawn through the gate just visible on the right?

    Edited to add 2 photos by @bjsc back in March.

    The red circle in photo 2 below is roughly where Sophie's body was, edited out

    .

    Post edited by chooseusername on


  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Mackinac


    Re: the skid marks, it looks as if someone was driving down the lane and saw an altercation taking place at the gate and abruptly came to a halt?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    There wasn't really any "someone" TO drive down the lane, though; there was only one permanently occupied house up there.

    I mean, obviously, there was a person there that night or early morning who committed a horrible crime; it might have been more than one, I suppose - a pair of criminals…even would-be burglars, perhaps. For the moment I'm going with the supposition that the criminal was NOT Alfie Lyons or Shirley Foster.

    After all, two of the three houses were holiday homes, only occasionally used. Breaking into holiday homes was, and is, unfortunately quite common. (As I know to my cost - our own little holiday cottage, also down a remote lane but much nearer to Dublin, was repeatedly broken into until we put a solid steel door on it.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Mackinac


    Another thought, someone had come in through the gate in the morning leaving it open, Sophie, having breakfast sees this, throws on boots to go and close it. As the car returns down the lane, unexpectedly sees the gate shut and comes to an abrupt halt . Confrontation then takes place by the gate?



  • Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Just as likely as any other theory.

    I think Sophie intentionally went down to the gate…….the donning of the boots indicates that.

    I cannot see any evidence that supports the sexual motive so that leaves the husband/hit theory and the sudden conflict proposition, as per your scenario. Of the two, the row at the gate is the more plausible.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    …and yet it seems our police force remain focused on a late night attack because she wouldnt sleep with Bailey 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Are they though? I know its been suggested that the focus remains on Bailey but, when they report, they will have to show that all possibilities were explored. I doubt that the case will ever be solved but something new may emerge.



  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭drury..


    I don't believe that's ever been said by the gardai

    As discussed before this wasn't a sex crime as no rape or sexual assault took place

    If the late nite caller is the correct theory the motive for the call may have been sex or not sex at all.

    Men can be simply drunk and infatuated and not driven by sex primarily.



  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭jesuisjuste


    I'm no Ms Vito but it looks to me like the skid mark in the mud and the mark on the gravel are too close to be made by the same car at the same time



  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭drury..


    Already been done but I would term this a "rage killing "

    To use baileys own word when he put forward the "bantry garda theory" there was a "connect"

    Maybe a Freudian slip on baileys part i believed

    A prior emotional or a physical connection and a rebuff sparking a murder

    That doesn't mean she simply refused sex so he killed her

    She could have told him to fukk off with his poetry and she's not interested in him

    All supposition of course on my part and not necessarily correct

    Post edited by drury.. at


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  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭drury..


    Bsileys distancing himself from knowledge of Sophie was never convincing

    I believe the most he acceded to was seeing her from Alfie's window ?

    That never rang true and was suggestive of a stronger connection

    Again all supposition on my part



  • Registered Users Posts: 29 Baz Richardson


    May I remind you of another poster on this forum who alleged she was at a party at Alfie's a few months before the murder? She said that Bailey stated that he did not know Sophie. If true, why would Bailey lie about knowing Sophie a couple of months before the murder?



  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭drury..


    That's the thing imo or one of them that leads me to suspect Bailey

    I believe he's a liar and not a very convincing one

    Again all speculation on my part



  • Registered Users Posts: 29 Baz Richardson


    Why would he lie about knowing Sophie to some random at a party sometime BEFORE the murder?



  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭drury..


    A few months or a couple of months ?

    That's quite a long time for circumstances to have changed prior to murder

    Also I didn't state that he physically knew her but that he may have had an emotional connection from knowing of her or seeing her.

    Alternatively he may he have simply lied and been low balling his knowledge of Sophie which I believe he did anyway subsequent to the murder

    Again all speculation and supposition



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Yes, even the 2 tyre marks on the gravel appear to be mis-matched. Would Ms Vito be able to tell if they were braking marks coming down the lane, or acceleration marks from taking off up the lane?

    The one in the mud appears to me to be a braking mark. @bjsc cropped the photo as the uncovered body was still in situ a few feet downhill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭drury..


    Worth noting that bjsc stated she believes a random caller to the house that morning is unlikely

    If correct the killer would have known her or had some reason to drive there



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,581 ✭✭✭thecretinhop


    I read somewhere she was very curt even cruel in put downs.

    Whoever came she walked down to gate might have said your pathetic etc man goes into rage she runs he goes after her..



  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭drury..


    If she walked to gate

    The garda theory is that she was chased to the gate from the house and i believe this is the correct theory



  • Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    No, that one I don't agree with.

    If she was so spooked that she panicked and made a run for the gate, I don't think she would have stopped to put her walikg boots on.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭drury..


    Could be

    One theory is as good as the next here in the absence of proof



  • Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭drury..


    Im just not buying the rage killing at the gate in the morning

    I'd also go with bjscs belief that an unknown/random caller is unlikely due to location



  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭jesuisjuste


    What difference does it make whether they met at the gate or the house anyway?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    or one theory is as poor as the next here in the absence of proof....

    ... I think it was aliens, even if it wasn't aliens, it was aliens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    I watched a Netflix series about the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 that vanished a decade ago.

    Even though the series was well made it were some crazy theories about what happened to the flight made by what I would describe as otherwise rational individuals who were experienced in aviation.

    Stuff about spies getting into the comms cabinets under the floor of first class and turning off sat receivers, stuff like the Inmarsat data that was used to give an indication of where the plane might be being manipulated.

    All making for interesting viewing, but equally far fetched rubbish.

    I think anything that Sheridan does about this case will be the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29 Baz Richardson


    Circumstances to change how? She barely visited the cottage? How does one have an emotional connection with somebody that was barely in the country, and when they were he likely did not know she was in the country anyway.

    Why do you believe he would lie about knowing her before the murder? What would be the point? Does it really make sense that somebody of Bailey's character would not take the opportunity at a party to state to everybody that he knew a French socialite who had a famous husband?



  • Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    And, critically, no one else claims that there was any association between them. Apart from Alfie, who was "90% sure that he had introduced them. But they were never seen together, there were no rumours of a connection, no records of any communications between them. In an environment like Schull/Toormore/Dunmanus, its hard to see how any type of relationship betwem them would go unnoticed.

    There's nothing to suggest that his denial of an association with her is false.



  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭jesuisjuste


    The onus is not on Bailey to prove he didn't know her, it's impossible to prove a negative. There is no evidence, and minimal opportunity for him to ever have met her.

    It would seem far more likely if it was Bailey that he just happened to meet her when he was wandering up to Alfie's in a drunken stupor and things escalated from there. I'm not sure why people would expect him to know her at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    No; there's absolutely no trace of this. A double set of running footprints from the house, down the field, and into the lane?

    Not a sign, not a mark in the grass. Absolutely nothing to support this idea.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Well, it seems to me that those who are convinced of his guilt, need to believe that there was some link between them, as the liklihood of there being none renders the already weak theory, even weaker.



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