Why wont die hard GAA fans admit football these days is muck?

It is if the players -

1. Are brave enough to try and execute attacks
2. Have a manager that encourages them to do so
3. Have players intelligent enough to have the movement to execute such attacks

I will use the goals against Roscommon by Dublin to show what can be done -

Goal 1 for Dublin v the Rossies @1:35 -

A counter attacking break from Dublin considered interchange of hand passes quick low ball, players offering options and interchange with Fention and Basquel, Roscommon did not know to mark. Finished deftly by Baquel.

Goal 2 for Dublin v the Rossies @ 2:08 - 2:26 counter attacking break at speed from one end of the pitch to the other - Roscommon did not even get a touch. Less than 20 seconds from one end of the pitch to the other. Jack McCaffery's incisive run was integral here drawing players out of position.Finished by Con O'Callaghan who got the most from play in the championship thus far.

Both goals were even more impressive at the game itself, as it gave full appreciation of the players use of space, and players providing angles.

The problem Jim Gavin, E.Fitzmaurice are trying to solve is the sides who constantly play with limited ambition and do not vary their play. The problem is not solely the evolution of football and the lack of rules catching up. It is the teams that are unwilling to create and play safety first. There was absolutely nothing wrong with those Dublin goals. I was at the game. I remember the goals for the level of skill involved in them, the level of movement and options provided in both.

I was at that 2014 Donegal v Dublin one as well. that one is cited as the one that made Jim Gavin change tactics and not go gung ho. more precision based stuff.

In the early part of that match Dublin were hitting points from way out, it looked like Donegal were going to get walloped. From what I remember a grey haired Christy Toye came on as sub and destroyed Dublin. Donegal were lethal on the counter and Dublin no idea how to cope with Donegal. For the life of me I still cannot understand why Gavin left Dennis Bastick on the bench. It was a game suited to power and big units. I would put it down as Jim Gavin's biggest error of his tenure.

In the recent Roscommon game there was a mix of everything to be honest, but there were plenty of parts of the game that I know you would hate, where Dublin and Roscommon played "keep ball" working a score conserving energy/probing side to side. I felt it was one of those slow build psychological trillers.

But what Roscommon did that a lot of teams were/are afraid to do v Dublin they pressed right up on Dublin making life really difficult. It really threw Dublin early on as they were not used to it. I enjoyed the match because both sides were not afraid to vary the play. If more teams did that football would be better overall.

I am going to be really interested to see what rule changes Gavin and Fitzmaurice come up with. Because from the sound of things Fitzmaurice wants any rule changes throughly tested and any loopholes/unintended consequences figured out, before trying them in proper high level games.

The most entertaining aspect of the game is surely scoring. More of which is achieved by keeping the ball in play, and keeping possession. The game used to be based on regular surrendering of possession. Until players woke up to the fact that it is better to keep possession, and produce more scores that way. Starting with the kick out. Which used to be a 50/50 ball into midfield. Not very smart.

No it’s not ,,when as others have said including myself ,that points scored with the hand or kicked via 20 metre frees or kicked from the hand 10 metres out from the goal are not in the least “entertaining”. This ‘outdoor basketball’ as currently played is about as entertaining as stale bread, and you know it!

Pat Spillane (who is as much 80s as 70s). And who else?

Well Spillane, jack o shea,dinny Allen,Sean o Neill to name but a few.

The old timers come from the era when no Gaelic Footballer ever played soccer, or even saw it played. It was a very specialised game which never developed much because of that isolation.

With the ending of the Ban, the influence of soccer gradually impacted on coaching. And the demise of Catch and Kick and the development of the Possession game ensued. Because that was the natural progression, and there is no going back. Anyone who think it is muck should find another hobby.

We got 1169 posts since the OP declared it was Muck.

"15 players behind the ball, balls going backwards, the mark is awful, goalkeepers playing as outfield players, the basic arts non existent like the tackling is shocking these days, the list is endless. Would it not be a lot better if it was like the old days?"

Including dozens of suggestions for new rules and new competetion formats, supposed to solve the perceived problems. None of which are of any interest to the people who play the game. Comment away, but don't expect to change the game. And if it is painful to watch, it is only going to make people unhappy.

They can play any style they like. That is the beauty of the rules. Any player including goalkeepers can go to any area of the pitch. They can kick pass or hand pass. Nobody is forcing them to play Possession, it is just the natural thing to do to win games.

It won't be an "issue" for whoever wins the All Ireland. Fans included.

The two teams in the final are as entertaining as any in the present time, their 2022 game was regarded as the best of the season. These two teams are not killing football, but less able teams are.

The big idea on this thread is that the game needs more occasions of contests for possession. In other words back to Catch and Kick, and players staying in designated areas of the field.

Not going to happen, when there is long term proof that keeping possession by whatever means, is the logical way to engineer more scores. Especially cruel is the attempt to shame goalkeepers into not taking a full part in the play when they see the need.

Whatever changes happen will happen naturally. Just like the ban on soccer keepers handling backpasses developed them into having equal footballing skills to the outfield players. They take part in intricate moves near the goals to defeat the "high press". In the old days they just hoofed to ball up the field. Gaelic already outlaws the player receiving the kick out from passing back to the keeper. That is enough.

Back in 2017 Jarlath stated his opposition to going back to mandatory old style kickouts to midfield. He is happy with the 20 metre rule, which facilitates the playing out from the back copied from soccer. Sometimes the opposition will take up field positions to make the short kick out more difficult, other times they will allow it unimpeded. Same in both sports and entirely logical.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2017/1001/908882-jarlath-burns-kickout/

Neither is he convinced that the Committee needs to make wholesale changes to the current rules. But he will let them do whatever they will. They won't be able to force the players to do stuff that they don't want to do. His expectation that the game will develop organically, matches my own. His fellow Armagh man Kieran McGeeney is also another stout defender of the way the game is played now.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0223/1434012-attractive-football-a-goal-for-new-gaa-president-burns/

However, he said he was keen not to pre-empt the research and potential findings of the new football review group.

"I think that what will emerge from this, nothing might emerge from it. They might decide (to) allow the game to change organically and it will come back to what it is," Burns continued.

"But there are many things that people disagree with. I personally like the idea of bringing the goalkeeper into the play and one of the dividends of that has been whenever you're picking a team now at under-10, young players want to play nets now because they see a role for themselves, a more creative role than standing freezing in the rain under the posts and I think that people like Ethan Rafferty and Niall Morgan have helped that.

no, he was talking about sports

Yep…. turning the game into 'outdoor basketball',and boring possession tactics.

John Spectator won't pay big bucks to watch these grifters kill the game.

Ja sees it …… and has acted…maybe nothing too big, but he sees where this is going if left in the hands of

the clipboard merchants.

Lets keep this one on football Pee, lets keep the feet of the 'clipboard merchants' to the fire.

They are running out of excuses and getting backed into corners.

Nnnnnnn……..nnnnnnnnn……..hiccup………..nnnnnnn……clipboard merchants………. nnnnnnnnn…….nnnnnnnnnnn…….hiccup……..nnnnnn……..handpassing………nnnnnnnnn………nnnnnnnnn…….outdoor basketball………….nnnnnnnnnnnn……………..clipboard merchants…….hiccup ………nnnnnnn……..nnnnnnnnnnn……………..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Agree, however the stranglehold they have on the way the game is played today needs to be loosened.

I would not be expecting big changes, however, the business of 37 handpasses sideways and backwards before a shot is even attempted is, to even the most feeble minded members of the spectators is not a good watch.

The supporters of the Clipboard merchants of course will try to hold on to their status and Gaelic football will become two teams shunting back and forward playing amongst themselves whilst the spectators will turn to their mobile devices while this procession back and forth continues.

There is nothing surer unless changes are made.

While I might agree with some of what your saying why would you bring it up on this tread after and Epic hurling match? Yesterdays match would put and sport in the shade. If you are really concerned about the welfare of hurling maybe start a new thread about it and I will join you there.