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Golf Ireland - the benefits

  • 18-07-2024 10:47am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭


    Recently joined my local course and was wondering what the main benefit of being part of Golf Ireland - do they offer reduced green fees across the country or is it mainly just handicap maintenance ?



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,812 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    1. Pretty much mostly it’s handicap maintenance.
    2. Access to play Open Competitions/Scratch Cups etc usually at a cheaper rate than green fees
    3. Sometimes reduced green fee prices but generally only at high end courses



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,119 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    biggest benefit is excellent car insurance, I've been using it for years and (for me) always cheapest out there



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭coillcam


    Benefits as the lads say above plus you can compete in interclub competitions. You'll find reduced green fees at quite a few courses of all price ranges. Note that lots of clubs don't post it online but when you call the proshop they may offer a reduced rate. Your club may also have reciprocal golf with another club - so free casual golf on another course although it's rare enough these days. Ultimately Golf Ireland is the same as FAI (via FIFA) or IRFU (via World Rugby), they are the country's union that administers the sport via the R&A.

    If you don't want a handicap or club membership you can pay green fees as an unaffiliated golfer. Think of paying a tenner for 5 aside astro with mates.

    The Independent Golfer scheme (through Golf Ireland) will also have some benefits in the subscription when it comes out. Unsure what that will be but you can google the Scotland/England scheme to get an idea. It will also let you keep a handicap without being a club member.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭magic_murph


    Cheers.

    Going to play Portnoo soon green fee is usually 250 but in an open comp is 50 so that's a great saving.

    I had a feeling the membership is mostly around reduced greenfees for open comps which I hope to take advantage of.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭coillcam


    Yeah opens are a great way to play new courses for a reduced rate and the bonus of potentially nabbing a prize is even better.

    You also get to practice as much as you want at the club and the unlimited casual golf is makes the membership "cheaper" the more you play.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,119 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Ignore that €250, pure Yank attraction dribble and delusions of grandeur



  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭Shank Williams


    if you’re up that way might as well play Cruit Island 2- more welcoming spot- some great holes- prob 25-30 quid or something like that for 18



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,091 ✭✭✭G1032




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭coillcam


    No idea, the clubs are more than a bit pissed with GI as there's not been much information until recently. No confirmed launch date but if not by end of this season, you'll see it early 2025.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,812 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Fairly sure it’s October it’s looking to be



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,199 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    There's been massive backlash from clubs to Golf Ireland over the IGS. Almost no consultation before they brought it up, and pretty much unanimous rejection of it.

    It's definitely going to kill a fair few clubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,091 ✭✭✭G1032


    Thanks all. It's pretty much the perfect solution for the like of me. Was a club member for 25+ years but don't have time now to justify the subscription costs (and haven't had for years). I would definitely try to get out more than the couple of times a year I do at the minute if I had a handicap and could play open days. I understand the concerns of the clubs though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭coillcam


    The clubs relying on distance members are the ones in danger, no idea what that number is tbh. Every other club will be fine.

    I'm sure it's been considered but given the comms so far, I'd be doubtful if GI has engaged appropriately with the distance clubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,812 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Agreed. For someone like me it’s a massive positive too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,602 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    For me, I can see the reasoning. Let people get handicaps, try increase GI membership, etc...

    But 100% think there should be no access to Opens. You can input general play rounds and use the app, but you pay at full rack rates.

    Otherwise just smells of having you cake...



  • Administrators Posts: 53,955 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    I think something like this is what most clubs will end up adopting.

    Either no access to Opens, or limited access to prizes, or only allowed to play Opens with a significant surcharge added on to the green fees.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,091 ✭✭✭G1032


    If that's what happens there is little point in the scheme at all. A 3, 4 or 5 year ban on any existing club member migrating to the scheme would be more appropriate. 5 years with no Sunday comp or interclub competitions or Captain's Prize or Presidents Prize or Club Match Play or Club Cup and so on so forth would be a big sacrifice just to switch to a scheme like this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,812 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Golf Ireland won’t allow clubs to apply a surcharge for IGI Members for Opens/Scratch Cups etc.

    It actually doesn’t make sense for Clubs to charge a surcharge on them anyway. There’s an opportunity for clubs to potentially get more people playing their open comps anyway due to this system.

    Maybe clubs need to look at themselves if they are losing people to this?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭AyeGer


    Just crazy prices, I’m surprised the Americans aren’t waking up to how much higher they are being charged vrs Irish people.
    I’ve played Portnoo many times as I’m from Donegal. Decent course but not worth 250.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭bakerbhoy


    GI have no say on pricing entry fees to domestic opens etc.

    Clubs set their own rates.

    Some offer a Gi rate. Some don't .

    They can't be mandated to do so.

    They Gi can however to their own championships.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,507 ✭✭✭VW 1


    Would clubs not benefit from the green fees coming in from GI visitors, which would be empty slots or member slots generating no cash?

    I am assuming the vast majority of members of clubs would stay members, casual golfers under the system would be likely to play opens and clubs could advertise these and generate 20-30 green fees they may not have gotten on a quiet Thursday.

    My POV is that it's more likely to attract casual golfers given the lack of a barrier to entry rather than seeing droves of members leaving. There will be some bleed of course, but those leaving because of the financial cost savings probably would have been pondering leaving either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,812 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    Of course they’d benefit. There’s potentially a new market opening for them. Some just won’t want to accept that though, and that’s fair enough for them I suppose



  • Administrators Posts: 53,955 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Depends on how it affects their membership. The only way clubs will stay viable is to protect the value of membership.

    Green fees are unreliable income, they are heavily seasonal and heavily weather dependent.

    The new IG fees will only benefit clubs so long as there is no negative impact on their membership income as a consequence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,604 ✭✭✭newport2


    A lot of Americans won't even consider playing courses below a certain price. A reasonably well known course was struggling a few years ago and on advice, substantially put up their green fees (over doubled them) and within a short time were booked out. People assume that the higher the green fees, the better the course (have made the same mistake myself in the past).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,812 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    I heard the same about Dooks.

    Something along the lines of being a ‘Category 4’ golf course instead of Category 2 or 3… something along those lines when they’re all at conferences trying to sell packages in America.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭coillcam


    The significant majority members clubs in the country need as much supplementary income as possible outside of subs. Ie those that don't have high demand/pricey subs/tourists. That usually comes in the form of green fees via opens and societies.

    The biggest line for income will always be memberships. If I think of my own club, 1 full adult sub probably equals 20-25x green fees (eg Opens or non gui rate). You won't want to try to find that number of green fees if you can avoid losing a member. So it's plain to see the club's concerns.

    Hypothetical numbers, if you drop 1 member (€1k/yr) and charge €50 for an open (€10 to prizes, €40 profit). You'd need 25 open green fees in a year (€1k/€40) to cover the loss in sub. Assuming you have 20 opens, it means you need 1.25 extra golfers per open to offset the loss of a member (25 fees/20 opens).

    To me, I see it fairly reasonable to expect that each open can entice the extra 1-2 independent golfers. Let those golfers play casual golf too and it offsets the lost member quickly. 12 months later I'd expect a club to convert a small number of those independent golfers into new/intro members. And so on the cycle continues.

    I'm cherry-picking and simplifying but unless a club bleeds a big number of members, there shouldn't be a big concern. The onus is on the clubs to entice independent golfers to play open and casual golf as well as recruit into membership. This will offset the leavers who are waiting 12+ months before they can use independent golf.

    It will be important for clubs to not price themselves out of the independent golfer market. Clubs need their green fees. Astute clubs that position themselves appropriately can see net positives for income and membership afterwards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,602 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    If IG members were to get open rates at the same as GI club members though, I genuinely think it would break a lot of clubs.

    Why spend about 1500 a year for membership (allowing for Sub, comp fees, bar credit, etc...) if you can go out and play opens for €20-30



  • Administrators Posts: 53,955 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The significant majority members clubs in the country need as much supplementary income as possible outside of subs. Ie those that don't have high demand/pricey subs/tourists. That usually comes in the form of green fees via opens and societies.

    But that's the key point, it's supplementary income. Membership money being replaced with green fee money would be really, really bad for clubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭coillcam


    It won't be as bad as you think. If you really want to play golf you're not going to give up membership. There's unlimited casual golf, practice facilities etc. Those who want the cheapest sub will always move around clubs anyway.

    The person who only plays 10 rounds a year or who's circumstances change (work, travel, kids etc). They'll come and go. A small but not insignificant % of memberships are transient by nature for obvious reasons.

    If this scheme was as bad as people make it out to be half of the clubs in England/Scotland would be covered in cobwebs. The numbers of golfers in Scotland on the scheme is about 2.5k iirc in 587 clubs. That's 4 golfers per club, are you going to lose 4 members and have 5 different golfers putting in green fees to recoup the loss? I'd wager yes.

    If the apocalypse arrives and clubs bleed members for 2026, expect to see the independent golf sub multiply by 3 and green fees to double. Between all of our own clubs and Golf Ireland no one will allow it to kill the clubs.

    Membership demographics will show the majority are in the 50+ age group. Independent golf is one of several streams to get more people playing the game. You won't get covid again (hopefully) giving a 1 off boost. If you don't attract more people to play, you won't have members and in turn, you won't have clubs while the game slowly bleeds away. Eventually becoming super elitist with few clubs remaining.

    100% I would have been a member in my club years ago if I could have become an independent golfer to test the waters. I was hesitant to even hand over €350 for the intro scheme I joined with.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭ShivasIrons


    This is the biggest load of codswallop being peddled around for increasing green fees, groups coming to Ireland or anywhere for that matter rarely know the breakdown of what they are paying, they don't choose on price, they choose on reputation and where they are told to go.

    The people peddling to increase the price where the ones making commission on selling green fees, the higher the price, the more commission they make. It's easy to increase the price when the person buying doesn't know what they pay.



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