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World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) Files

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,370 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    Jolyon (killing fox in kimono) Maugham is incredibly high on his own supply



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Isn't it an utterly appalling thing to make up stories about people committing suicide to push your own agenda?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,370 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau




  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday


    It is worth reading Richard Dawkins on transgenderism, he is one of the few that makes any sense on the issue and rips a hole in the lies that come from transgender advocates, he also has an explanation that actually looks far more likely than what the advocates would try and force you to accept.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,395 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Sad fact is, people like him would love it if kids did kill themselves, so he can be proven right. some even might do that due to this kind of rhetoric. We know that a lot of these kids are vulnerable to suggestion due to having asd, it's part of the reason why they are susceptible to thinking they might be trans in the first place. Statements claiming that kids have no choice but to commit suicide if they can't have these drugs are irresponsible and downright dangerous and I'd suggest that the "ashes" he's talking about would be better placed at his door in that case. Shame on him



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,497 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I briefly alluded to his suicide claims earlier. With the UK government exposing his lies his public life should be left in tatters such that he's never seen or heard from ever again. Bizarre he should just carry on as normal as if nothing happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Thanks to volchitsa for that suicide report and greyday for the Dawkins stuff - very interesting.

    On suicide, I've heard it described as a permanent solution to a temporary problem. It seems that the same could be argued for much of the treatment being advocated given the high rate of desistance. People and their families are really being let down by the lack of informed consent, disinformation and outright lies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭aero2k


    It's often presented as a battle between (extreme) right and left, when really it's about right and wrong.

    It is a demonstration of how upside down the world has become when we are relying on the tories in setting up the Cass Review and banning puberty blockers, and those creationist Republicans in the US in passing laws to protect women's sports, to bring a bit of sanity to the whole thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday


    For a time it seemed most films I switched on to watch on Netflix had a trans character, way more over represented than the actual numbers, it seemed it had spread to politicians, film makers, educators and many more, all somehow captured by an ideology that was harming far more children than it was helping, just for clarity, I do believe there are trans children out there but I dont for a second believe that mutiliating them will rewire their brains from which I believe the issue stems from.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,497 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    UK Labour MP Nadia Whittome stands up parliment and says to Keir Starmer parents of trans children are 'terrified' by the goverments ban on puberty blockers. Oh so the parents of trans youth are experts on pubertys blocker are they?

    Starmer was having none of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Oh noes! What will the Munchie (munchausen by proxy) moms do now for the clout and attention they crave?



  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday


    Its not all moms, something to bear in mind, those with genuine Trans kids are rightly terrified of what comes in time for them and their child.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Just rounding back to the begining of the thread. Mia Hughes was dismissed as an anti-trans activist. Have a look at this and see for yourself - to me she comes across as a journalist who has got her hands on some information that is in the public interest to desiminate. She makes some interesting comparisons between the medical treatment of trans patients and notable historical medical scandals. Her arguments are compelling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Never lett it be forgotten that António Egas Moniz, won a Nobel Prize for medicine for inventing the infamous frontal lobotomy…. also let it be rememered that the inventor of 'gender theory' John Money was a groomer and child abuser.

    From his Wiki:

    In 1966, a botched circumcision left eight-month-old Reimer without a penis. Money persuaded the baby's parents that sex reassignment surgery would be in Reimer's best interest. At the age of 22 months, Reimer underwent an orchiectomy,
    in which his testicles were surgically removed. He was reassigned to beraised as female and his name changed from Bruce to Brenda. Money further recommended hormone treatment, to which the parents agreed. Money then recommended a surgical procedure to create an artificial
    vagina, which the parents refused. Money published a number of papers reporting the reassignment as successful. David Reimer was raised under the "optimum gender rearing model" which was the common model for sex and gender socialization/medicalization for intersex youth. The model was heavily criticized for being sexist, and for assigning an arbitrary gender binary.[2]

    According to John Colapinto's
    biography of David Reimer, starting when Reimer and his twin Brian were six years old, Money showed the brothers pornography and forced the two to rehearse sexual acts. Money would order David to get down on all
    fours and Brian was forced to "come up behind [him] and place his crotch
    against [his] buttocks". Money also forced Reimer, in another sexual position, to have his "legs spread" with Brian on top. On "at least one occasion" Money took a photograph of the two children performing these
    acts.

    These kinds of people haven't gone away you know… in fact, not only have they not gone away, these kinds of people are STILL driving policy regards gender and medicine. You only have to look at the groups WPATH sought advice from, one being a group catering to castration fetishists. Why would a professional body be consulting with fetishists I wonder?

    So when people tell you to 'trust the science' and that these are the 'guidlines of a professional expert body', take a good hard look at these 'experts'.

    Post edited by conorhal on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Ah, but I would question the very existence of Trans kids, for what is a trans child, if not a child with "issues" that has been told (by adults) who believe in Gender-ideolog that they may be born into the wrong body!

    … hence they should be transitioned, firstly when still a child by a name/pronoun change, then drugs to stop puberty, followed by surgery to become their "true" gender!

    WPATH files & Dr Hilary Cass say NO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday


    Before it was mainstream I knew a person who was trans, he was just considered odd at the time but from a young age acted and dressed as a Girl, there was no coercion at this time from Doctors or parents, I take the view he was wired wrong and lived as his wiring dictated so I am somewhat sympathetic to those that seem genuinely trans/wired differently to their biological sex.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,332 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    Being wired differently is fine, as its within the parameters of human nature & biology. Effeminate boys in dresses or butch tomboy girls have occured all the time throughout history & that's cool 👍 Being trans is another thing altogether, as it requires you to believe in an ideology (based not on nature or biology), but rather on a non provable belief system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday


    Fair enough, I may have fallen into the trap by using the word trans as its a common term to use in this age, its a pity there is no language we can agree on to describe people like this that does not infringe on the binary of biology.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,395 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Sounds like that person was an old school "transsexual", who do still exist and always have. Nowadays though the concept has been overtaken by ideologues who insist that men with a fetish (formerly known as transvestites) are actually women, and pretty much anyone who doesnt exactly conform to gender stereotypes, be included under the same umbrella, or else. I'm sure your friend wasn't going around threatening to punch women if they weren't allowed into the toilets or having a fit about not being able to be on the girls sports team.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday


    Nothing of the sort from him, just odd is all we thought but he continued and eventually moved to UK, strangely enough he was left to do as he pleased and as far as I am aware didn't get any hassle, his poor mother did go through a terrible time though, this was back when being gay was still illegal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,497 ✭✭✭AllForIt




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭carveone


    I wonder are parents actually terrified or is it really that companies like AbbVie, TAP, etc are incensed at how less suffering might affect their sales. Lupron, aside from being incredibly dangerous, is also incredibly expensive. It's 10s of 1000s for an injection regime which leads inevitably into a hormone regime (something to do with bone density if you don't).

    Sounds profitable. Perhaps some sociopath in one of these companies figured out that framing a manufactured medical issue as a civil rights issue would result in an expanding market of poor souls locked into a mandatory medical subscription for the rest of their lives. I can't understand how people like this live with themselves*.

    Mia Hugues is a very good speaker and very easy to listen to, although I personally find a lot of this stuff a tough watch. I think I've ended up with some form of PTSD! I found it startling when she said a JK Rowling tweet started it all for her. Wow, that women should get a Nobel prize or something. It's so extraordinary how much of an effect she's had over the last few years.

    Mia mentioned a number of historical medical scandals. An article in pittparents.com blog (which is a great read if you want to be permanently depressed) brought up the history of eugenics ending up in the "Doctors Trial" in Nuremburg in 1947. To quote: "Medical doctors in the most technically and ethically advanced society on earth were imprisoned or hanged for performing experimental procedures on human subjects without their informed consent - consent that the docs knew they needed. Think about that".

    *(South Park had companies like this down decades ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxXOe6SG1qw)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭aero2k


    @carveone JK Rowling is quite the hero. She has used her position of wealth and fame as a sort of shield to protect others with similar views who don't have the resources to fight the very vocal opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭Enduro


    The High Court in the UK has ruled that the puberty blockers ban imposed by the last government is lawful. Wes Streeting, the new health secretary (previously an education officer of Stonewall) intends to keep the ban in place. This removes a potential legal obstacle to that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Hmm - the exact opposite of what Shoog had predicted.

    Funny that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    You mean Jo Maugham, the tax lawyer, had no idea what he was talking about? I'm shocked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,395 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Around 1000 doctors have signed an open letter raising concerns about the BMA stance of disregarding the Cass review and stating that they are "extremely disappointed" with their actions. Again, pretty much the opposite of what a certain poster was predicting.

    Organisers of the letter to the BMA leadership say it has the support of about 1,000 doctors, more than half of whom are BMA members.

    They say 23 former or current clinical leaders at Royal Colleges are among the supporters.

    The letter says the Cass Review was right to conclude there was so little evidence about the “safety and efficacy” of puberty blockers that they should only be prescribed under research conditions.

    It goes on to argue that the BMA was “going against the principles of evidence-based medicine and against ethical practice”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday


    I doubt it TBH, I know she says she is but I think that might be another mistruth from her.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Northern Ireland has brought in the ban on puberty blockers that's in England.

    Some of Greens and PBP are now campaigning against it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Just in the interests of balance, Jesse Singal has a substack post that analyses a critique of the CASS review by a group of Yale academics. It's detailed but fair enough. It's an interesting read - it doesn't in any way undermine the important findings of the review, but points out a few areas where they could have done better. On the other hand, Singal exposes the underhand way many academics operate nowadays, one of them even perjuring herself.

    I am unable to post a link but if you Google "Jesse Singal Substack" it comes up on the first page.



  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday


    https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/researchers-found-puberty-blockersThereisa

    There is a trend with extreme trans advocates to distort the truth and in a lot of cases to outright lie about findings.

    It does not even seem they are willing to help genuine trans kids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,463 ✭✭✭plodder


    He's had a few posts about it. This might be the one @aero2k is referring to. It's an interesting read.

    https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/yales-integrity-project-is-spreading



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭aero2k


    That's the one, and he's very even- handed. The behaviour of the Yale academics is disturbing in terms of the integrity of third level education in general, however I suppose the fact that they tried, and failed to undermine the key findings actually enhances the standing of the Cass review.

    I think Singal is working on a part II of the blog post linked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,759 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Scottish children’s charity calls puberty blockers ‘wonderful’

    LGBT Youth Scotland, which runs a controversial education charter scheme followed by a majority of Scottish secondary schools and dozens of primaries, is under fresh scrutiny after it denounced the findings of the Cass Review.

    These "charities" are determined to keep pushing their ideology, regardless of what the evidence says. It really is ideology vs science. And WPATH are among the worst offenders in that.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,759 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I didn't know Mridul Wadhwa had been suspended from the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre. That's some good news at least.

    Now they need to ask why a male person without even a Gender Recognition Certificate was given a job reserved for women in the first place. I don't suppose there's any sign of that happening yet?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,759 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    And am I risking being banned from this thread for saying that Mridul Wadhwa is male, even though Wadhwa literally didn't bother getting a GRC which was easily available, and therefore got the job counselling female rape victims (and selecting other "female" rape counsellors to do the same) under false pretences?

    Because the problem is that it's impossible to express a principled objection to Wadhwa's position as head of ERCC if one has to pretend to believe that Wadhwa is female. If Wadhwa is a woman, then any such objection becomes an objection to a particular kind of woman. Like objecting to an Indian, or a lesbian - which would of course be wrong.

    But women who have been raped and abused by men are often traumatised by the presence of men, and it makes healing impossible for them if they are expected to ignore the presence of a man just because that man claims to feel like a woman.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭aero2k


    "…. if they are expected to ignore the presence of a man just because that man claims to feel like a woman."

    If it was just the presence of a man, that would be bad enough, but when that man goes on to lecture them about their prejudice agains the male body - talk about adding insult to injury!

    To get back to the sporting arena, there were at least two transmen competing in women's sports in Paris '24 - runner Nikki Hiltz and a Philipino boxer, Hergie Bacyadan. I doubt anyone on here has any problem with that, so hopefully we can't be labelled as transphobic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,759 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Trans men nearly always do continue in the female category, unsurprisingly. And of course that makes sense - because they would be so outclassed in the male category that it would be the end of their career.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭aero2k


    I realise I got my threads mixed up but I'll leave the post there as the bit about condemnation as a transphobe merely for not agreeing 100% with an ideology is relevant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,395 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    And literally everyone acknowledges this. Somehow though, when it comes to trans women we have a bunch of (mainly male) posters screaming about how anyone who doesnt think they should compete against females is an awful bigot and that theres no difference between them and a biological female. Wonder why this is?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,354 ✭✭✭Vote4Squirrels


    Wadhwa - whether male or female (they are biologically male of course) - should be nowhere near something as sensitive as a rape crisis shelter.

    Google the podcast they spoke on (I believe For Women Scotland have the transcript) - basically saying that if a woman had been raped and requested a female police officer, forensic person etc and a transwoman was provided they should "have their prejudices challenged". No you monster, they have been violated in the worst way - they want to see a woman only, you get them one and you advocate for your ideology at a more appropriate time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,768 ✭✭✭DeadHand


    An amazing ignorance around the practicalities of competitive sport combined with a breathtaking sense of self-regard.



  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭greyday


    IF it was only that…….they are not stupid and know full well the advantages biological males have over biological females, they do not care an iota about biological females and less about their safety.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭aero2k


    The more I think about this topic, the more my head hurts. There's so much mental gymnastics going on. Some examples:

    There has been justified outrage over many years due to revelations of the East German state sponsored doping system, which forced drugs including testosterone on young teen girls with disasterous health consequences, including premature death. Now, we have activists promoting the use of testosterone on young teen girls.

    Left wing people have tended to be highly educated people supportive of science, free speech, and reasoned debate. Yet, people have been banned from speaking on college campuses, lost jobs, had death threats against them…there's so much dishonesty.

    Disagreement has been labelled "hate speech".

    It's been shocking how various groups, in the US in particular, have doubled down in the aftermath of the WPATH revelations and the Cass Review final report.

    I wish I knew that the solution is.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    There's a court case in the US coming up in the new year which looks like it will end whatever credibility the WPATH currently has. The judge has sealed the documents but before that happened some of them got into the public domain and they showed that the last Standards of Care weren't evidence based. That the removal of many of the min age grades for various procedures was done for political reasons and they also suppressed the results of systematic reviews they commissioned.

    "Court documents recently released as part of the discovery process in a case involving youth gender medicine in Alabama reveal that 

    WPATH’s claim was built on shaky foundations. The documents show that the organisation’s leaders interfered with the production of systematic reviews that it had commissioned from the Johns Hopkins University Evidence-Based Practice Centre (EPC) in 2018."

    "Another document recently unsealed shows that Rachel Levine, a trans woman who is assistant secretary for health, succeeded in pressing wpath to remove minimum ages for the treatment of children from its 2022 standards of care. Dr Levine’s office has not commented. Questions remain unanswered, but none of this helps WPATH’s claim to be an organisation that bases its recommendations on science."

    Research into trans medicine has been manipulated (economist.com)

    After this case is heard the opposition to Cass, which is already struggling for credibility no matter what the Greens or PBP think" should disappear for most people and we can start actually helping these kids.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,463 ✭✭✭plodder


    Funny coincidence (or maybe not as you never know with social media). But, there was a video yesterday on the RTE news site about women's heart health with some interesting statements, like apparently most women believe they are more likely to die of breast cancer than a heart attack or stroke. In reality, they are six times more likely to die of a heart attack or stroke than breast cancer. It went on to describe how the symptoms (of heart attack and stroke) can differ between men and women. I was thinking well that was nice that the video referred unambiguously to women. But, then what other word could they have used in the context of heart health? "People with a cervix" would just sound (even more) ridiculous.

    So, then a copy of this social media post appeared in my feed today. The European Society of Cardiology has (just) removed sex from a risk score for stroke, maybe in the complete opposite reaction to the conundrum above. Read the rationale given in the post below …

    It seems, what little progress has been made in highlighting distinctions between women's general health and men's general health, in a way that benefits women, is taking backward steps in the cause of gender inclusivity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,370 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    Utterly ludicrous AND dangerous. And for what?!?

    Some false sense of inclusivity? Kowtowing to Male Supremacy?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,395 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    I've yet to see any men's health issue such as prostate or testicular cancer have the fact that it's males who are effected be completely erased. Yet from cervical cancer, to childbirth, and now apparently, strokes, the word "woman" is becoming verboten from female health issues so as not to offend males.



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