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First Secretary 2024

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Comments

  • #32
    exitstageleft
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭exitstageleft


    They had expected to have the 2nd stage presentation and interviews completed in July, according to their own timeframe laid out in the information booklet. Guess they'll miss that deadline now.



  • #33
    exitstageleft
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭exitstageleft


    Just landed in my public jobs messages:

    "Due to the high volume of applications submitted for this role, Stage 1 - Shortlisting is currently still ongoing. This has impacted on the original indicative timeline provided in the information booklet for this competition, and therefore it is not envisaged that Stage 2 – Main Interview will take place before mid-August."

    PAS running a month and a half late after just stage 1.



  • #34
    NillyNIR
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭NillyNIR


    does anyone know what material I should be revising to prepare for the interview? I'm going in blind



  • #35
    licayal
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭licayal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357770#Comment_122357770

    They have to run Third Sec as well. I think they're short on manpower in the PAS because of the CO and EO competition ongoing. Not to mention a ton of other small competitions.



  • #36
    licayal
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭licayal


    *Just my views*

    The Competition Booklet is my go to for this info. Display that you can apply the AP competencies confidently. This should be the vast majority of how you sell yourself.

    Bonuses would include being up to date on our national priorities; Global Ireland; Irish Aid; Domestic and International affairs. If you have an area you want to focus on, you can bring that up in the interview.

    I have a few more in mind but I wouldn't want to give away all my ideas ;)



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  • #37
    exitstageleft
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭exitstageleft


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358046#Comment_122358046

    Not really an excuse though, since they know what's coming. It's just typical of most PAS-run campaigns.

    The consequence is losing out on good, private sector applicants who can't comprehend waiting six months or more to hear on a job application and often get better offers in the meantime.

    I reckon PAS is on desperate need of some competition.



  • #38
    sohara00
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭sohara00


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122358202#Comment_122358202

    no its not "typical" at all. most of their competitions run perfectly fine and on time.

    Shortlisting always causes issues because they're going though every person who applied individually made worse by the fact that on average around 25 percent of all applicants only do the interview for experience and never wanted the job, or were incapable of reading whats required in a role and applied anyhow



  • #39
    exitstageleft
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭exitstageleft


    I disagree. Any PAS competition I have been involved with has been lengthy and ran beyond its original deadline. Furthermore, the starting date for the very first person on the eventual panel always seems to be 6 months, at the earliest, from the competition's application deadline. These timelines just would not, and do not, fly in the private sector and should not be acceptable in the civil service either.

    But regardless, I guess it's this one that matters right now and it is certainly delayed.



  • #40
    lucat
    Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭lucat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122357770#Comment_122357770

    Well I'm glad that they have given a notification of the updated timeline anyway, which they don't always do. It shows an unexpected respect for candidates' time. At least I can enjoy my holidays without worrying now!

    The delay is likely a combo of PAS interviewers being volunteer retirees who can only carry out two interview processes per year or they risk forfeiting their pension, the fact that it's summer, and over the past year or two there have been issues with civil service retention, so PAS now has to run more campaigns than anticipated throughout the year. This is obviously costly but mostly it means they can't plan effectively.



  • #41
    uhohherewego
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭uhohherewego


    DFA dictates when a first sec comp is run to suit their needs, not the other way round. Sure with the third sec etc., they run like clock work but not the promotion grades.



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  • #42
    exitstageleft
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭exitstageleft


    I'm surprised how many people view PAS as fit for purpose. It clearly is not. Six or seven months to appoint the first candidate is way too long. And if they can't run competitions in a timely manner, as and when they are needed by government departments, then they're not up to the job.

    No doubt they need more staff / better funding / newer systems but refusing to acknowledge there's any issues at all means nothing will ever improve.



  • #43
    lucat
    Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭lucat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122364472#Comment_122364472

    I agree, and I think PAS is part of a bigger issue with appointment to jobs in the civil service. It seems that when this is done poorly for whatever reason, either the appointee or their coworkers are leaving and the whole process starts all over again: PAS apparently has to use up their current panel unusually fast to backfill these vacancies, and run another competition unexpectedly when they keep getting requests from Departments whose staff have left.

    And so the cycle continues....



  • #44
    licayal
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭licayal


    For anyone interested in going for Third Secretary also. Comp opens Friday

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058359704/third-secretary-2024-competition



  • #45
    uhohherewego
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭uhohherewego


    I think just because PAS doesn't operate to a timeline that you deem appropriate doesn't mean they aren't fit for purpose.



  • #46
    exitstageleft
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭exitstageleft


    They don't operate on a timeline that is appropriate. That's one of several serious problems.

    But anyway, I've heard that the second round might be short, self-recorded interview questions. Does that sound right? It would be fairly different to the regular AP comp if so.

    Also, will the change from the competency framework to a "capability" one influence anyone's approach? I find it tricky to really gauge the difference.



  • #47
    Hello itsmeAdele
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭Hello itsmeAdele


    Results are out for Stage 1- shortlisting. Unfortunately missed out on one of the competencies. Gutted is an understatement! I felt like it was a strong example as well. Ah well. This new capability framework has me perplexed. I’ll have to keep my eye out for the next Assistant Principal competition (hopefully later this year!). Anyway, best of luck to all that were shortlisted!



  • #48
    lucat
    Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭lucat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122425886#Comment_122425886

    Yeah I've missed on a few of them, commiserations! Perhaps it's because of the competencies descriptions not being communicated clearly from what they had in mind, or perhaps it's just because the examples I gave were at the wrong leadership level or maybe they were too old, who knows. You live and you learn anyway, and I've learned not to get my hopes up for these things!



  • #49
    lf153
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭lf153


    As ever, shortlisting is a blunt process and tough going. I heard that when people inside DFA go for first sec in internal competitions they get interview preparation and training, so this probably helps them with the writing the forms and competencies for open competitions.


    Congratulations to anyone who got through. Here is hoping there are more batches in the future.



  • #50
    countyireland12345
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭countyireland12345


    Based off previous First Sec comps, do we know what a good OOM or score is for this competition? Will there be another batch after all those with a score of 320 or more "complete" the second stage? I thought my OOM was good yet I scored under 320. Here's hoping there are retirements galore in DFA over the next year.



  • #51
    lucat
    Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭lucat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122426352#Comment_122426352

    I had the same experience in the DSO stage 1 last year. The panel expired after one year and there was never a second group called to stage 2. I suppose even some of those on the panel never even got an offer.



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  • #52
    sheepgobahhh
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭sheepgobahhh


    There will likely be several batches called to the interview stage based on previous First Sec competitions.

    Staff in DFA don't get any special interview training/prep for First Sec competitions. It's the same as anywhere else - if you know someone in the role or it's your manager you might ask them for help.

    Best of luck to anyone who made it through to shortlisting. I didn't make the 320 mark, but did score quite well (in my opinion), so looking forward to seeing the cut-off for the next batch to be brought to interview.



  • #53
    wizards_sleeve
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭wizards_sleeve


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428817#Comment_122428817

    I wonder how long the panels run for? I’m guessing that they took the top 40 as I scored close but not close enough to 320. There are also the interdepartmental and internal panels to consider so not confident that another batch from open will be called for interview tbh.



  • #54
    countyireland12345
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭countyireland12345


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430045#Comment_122430045

    The booklet does not seem to confirm, but I presume 2 years from closing date per 2021 and 2018 open competitions, in which case it would run to 30 May 2026. The poster above said further batches were called in previous comps, and the 2018 FS comp thread on here confirms that too. Wouldn't be surprised if some people get a message in a year's time asking if still interested / called to stage 2 (interview).



  • #55
    exitstageleft
    Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭exitstageleft


    Was 320 the combined competency score required to get called through?

    Unfortunately, I fluffed one and didn't make the minimum score. Did pretty well in the others.

    Congrats to those who made it through and good luck in the interviews!



  • #56
    Tipplegend
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Tipplegend


    Scored well across the competencies but unfortunately didnt reach the 320 mark! Disappointed but given the number of applicants the shortlisting was always going to be brutal.

    Having worked in DFA for a bit, I know that there is no special training for these applications. Its just that those already in the dip service have the experience and knowledge and can give advice. 3rd Secs willll also have a lot of relevant examples

    The interdepartmental circular mentioned the panel would end sometime in 2026. So given the number of vacancies that will actually arise, it is highly unlikely that a second batch will be called to interview.

    That being said the last competition wasnt very successful by all accounts, with a good number of those panelled turning down offers in the end.

    But hey I will keep my fingers crossed!

    Best of luck to all that got called through to the next stage!



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