Deposit return scheme (recycling) - Part 2

That's just a prediction.

You don't know any more than I know or even Re-turn themselves.

I hope they do.

As far as I know the material is exported because we don't have the necessary plant to deal with it.

That might change in the future.

I really don't have access to any financial details.

Privatisation definitely complicates the matter.

It means the department is negotiating with the Irish Waste Management Association instead of just issuing a circular to local authorities.

The bin companies should not be allowed to recoup any claimed losses caused by Government legislation from consumers.

Every time (two times) I go to my local dunnes I have to try and get someone to fix the machines, plus they are located in a car park which has become a local tipping ground because of these two machines. Green tax con.

It's almost as if you're making the case for the guys who are out to shaft you.

This isn't a normal business.

How long are you willing to pay them for not collecting the recyclables you now have to take to an RVM or lose the deposit ?

I know you don't like DRS, you've said it often enough here, so why would you volunteer to pay as well ?

Understanding is generally a good trait but I think you might be overdoing it.

A bit rich from you considering you've done nothing but make the case for the scam. Which is 100% people out to shaft us, ie: the Government and Re-Scam. Double shafted really, because now we're getting increased bills from the private companies due to government interference. I don't want increased bin bills, but like most people in this country we don't have a choice, as it's a single company who does it in each area.

Who said they're the good guys? You're putting words in our mouths. There's no good guys. Ever. There's money grabbing, and we're getting screwed from both sides. DRS is the reason the bin companies are upping their prices, of which we have NO choice. And saying DRS costs us nothing is just plain false. However, it's quite obvious at this stage there's no discussion with you, DRS is great. I'm out.

Read what Mary Lou, Brid Smith and the Taoiseach said in the Dail. Whatever changes have happened in bin charges recently can't be linked to DRS. Because the companies are still in consultation with the other parties involved. One of which might be inclined not to renew the permit of a company which goes rogue. Permits last five years. The whole lot of them went rogue already, with that piece in the paper designed to frighten us about higher charges.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2024-07-02/4/

(Taoiseach)

On the specific issues, we do need to have an evidence base here rather than just accept what a waste company, with the greatest respect to it, or any other organisation says. The charges applied by waste management companies are managed by those companies but they are subject to compliance with relevant legislation, including contract and consumer legislation. It is a condition of the permits under which waste collectors operate to charge fees that respect the polluter-pays principle and to incentivise the segregation of waste. The National Waste Collection Permit Office has responsibility for issuing all waste collection permits and it is now engaging on this matter, including in respect of some of the information or the charges or suggestions being put forward by the companies.

In your last paragraph you suggest subvention by the government. If the bin companies get that no price increase to customers would be necessary.

Do you have a feeling that government subvention is going to come in from some money trees from Jack Chambers back garden?

What you suggest essentially means that there will be very little if any of increase in recycling as what was done by bin companies is just being done by re-turn so we switched Peter for Paul. Not to mention that there is feeling that Peter robs Paul and Peter wants his money back and he is getting it from us or the government (where government is again just us anyway).

All this scheme managed is to create another quango with hefty salaries for the boys and couple more jobs. But even that jobs increase may be only temporary as there may be some jobs gone from bin companies as they may see a bit decreased workload because of re-turn getting what used to be their piece of a pie.

You constantly fail to grasp basic things which somehow do not surprise me because that seems to be common trait for a lot of the people in green movement.

You are stuck in your world of paying for not collecting recyclables and refuse to realize that bin company collect everything. That is why you pay them - to haul away stuff you do not want.

Up until now they were able to subsidize disposing of unwanted stuff by sorting it and getting something back for valuable stuff which we even put in separate bins for them. It all adds up and result in smaller price you pay while they as a business were able to make some profit. At the end of the day you do not work for free yourself either.

Re-turn took this income stream from them so in order to function they need to cover it with something else and since the only choice they have is to charge more for service they provide that is precisely what they will do.

If you are so convinced about infallibility of your logic then go ahead and just cancel the contract, keep your rubbish since you do not wish to pay the charges and let us know how it turned out for you.

No disrespect intended but if it's ok with everyone I'll just make a general reply due to time constraints this morning. I will get back to the thread later.

On the bin companies.

1 I don't accept that the bin companies should charge their customers extra due to the loss of recyclables. Consumers are already co-operating with DRS and putting up with varying levels of inconvenience. That is their contribution.

2 The loss of recyclables is caused by the new DRS legislation which has been brought in to ensure that we reach EU targets.

3 Overall responsibility for reaching the targets lies with the Government. The bin companies and Re-turn are both part of the same industry that the Government relies on to deliver sustainable waste management.

4 Currently negotiations are addressing the bin companies claim for compensation for loss of recyclables.

5 Some form of re-balancing by way of subsidy is the most likely outcome. This is not unusual when Government is relying on the commercial world to deliver public policy outcomes.

On Re-turn.

I am not an uncritical supporter of Re-turn. I have been posting on the scheme in all the threads because I am interested in the area of sustainability.

I accept that some posters will never be reconciled to the concept.

However I personally can't see any other way to reach the target of 90% by 2030. I don't think green bin collection will do it.

In conclusion I represent only myself here and all opinions expressed are my own. I am happy to correct any mistakes.

Stating a fact isn't necessarily making a case for someone or something. it's merely stating a fact.

And the fact of the matter, which has been put to you time and again, is that a private business concern is allowed to raise their prices if they are deemed to be insufficient to keep their profit margins within the realm of what they want them to be, so long as no laws are broken, and Thorntons, Greyhound, Citi-bin, et al bumping up their prices by a few quid isn't breaking the law.

The consumer is on the hook to private firms now for their waste collection and in many cases they are at the mercy of a single or perhaps two options. Both of which are usually a Hobson's choice. There is no real competition when you basically have a cartel operating what is essentially a monopoly, which is what our waste management is these days. And you end up with prices only going up and never down, which is what a real market is supposed to look like.

The problem here, aside from the fact that we hocked our bin collection into private hands in the first place, is that Re-Turn have caused a serious ripple with their entry into this faux market with regards to the knock on affects in the profits of companies already making bank on waste (and make no mistake they are in it for the money regardless of what case you might make for them shafting you and us) and it was a ripple they would have factored into their business case. And if they didn't factor it in, then they have no business being involved at all.

This DRS nonsense has been an absolute mess from the beginning and no amount of excuses will alter that, with the end result being that the man in the street ends up paying more for less and corporatism wins out over the public good once again.

You said they take wanted and unwanted stuff. They only take wanted stuff. If they don't want it they don't take it like glass bottles. I have no doubt that if someone diverted other materials like paper from their system, they would have launched a poor mouth media campaign against that as well. Don't get taken in by this carry on.

Like I said earlier this bin companies compensation issue has a bit more to run.

I've outlined my position on it several times now.

I agree with you that privatising an essential public service hasn't worked out well.

If we did away with DRS in the morning how would we go about reaching the EU targets?

I agree with you that consumers shouldn't have to pay more as well as having to comply with DRS to get their deposits back.

What a load if BS. We do know if we put bins in the street that some people will put there ordinary rubbish in them. As well a lot of the dumping of can and bottles is in the countryside. We can hardly have a bin every 50 meters. Go to any football or soccer match or any public event and even though there's plenty of bins lads still chuck them on the ground. F@@ker will not clean up after themselves on the beach either.

Other countries have prooven that the deposit return scheme works. I let you into a little secret it here to stay whether you like it or not and no amount of whinging and whining will change it.

The private companies doing it will not be making any money except on the bottle and cans if EVERYONE RETURNS EVERY BOTTLE AND CAN.

But there is lazy whining f@@ker who at the slightest alteration to anything are in for a whinge.

Look recycling is not a zero sum game even if these bins did work there would be a cost to empty and maintain them. It seems that PET bottle are significantly more recyclable if they are not contaminated by other rubish or recycleable.