Top 10% of earners contribute 2/3 of income tax take

different horses for courses I guess. Judging by the figures 78k is top 10%, so it’s double.

It depends on where you live in the states. 150k in New York is nothing, 150k in rural America is massive.

While I absolutely agree many Americans live below the poverty line, which is shocking in the “richest” country in the world, those that make money above the 120k mark on average (location dependent) live well.

Personally, that salary of 78k I would find difficult, hence I have admiration for those that can survive on it and less. It’s not easy.

The big issue I see with this is that all this is data is from PAYE workers.

It does not include Sole traders or People of own/run limited companies.

There is a black hole in tax/earnings in these places with a lot of them employing "creative" tax accountants and availing of every single loop hole going.

The title should say top 1% of PAYE workers. People who run their own businesses are not PAYE workers and are the richest of all.

I know of multiple people who have:
Bought houses through their companies.
Renovated their house trough their companies.
Paid themselves consultancy fees for consulting in their own companies.
Have theirs kids on the books even though they don't work there.
Cars
Holidays
Lunches
Dinners
etc
All of them have been audited by the Tax man and have found nothing.

We all know people that do it. They have the most money and pay very little tax relative to a similarly earning PAYE worker.

Hence why the CSO survey is much more interesting

And puts to 10% at 78K

I trust CSO over a rag like Irish Times

No, the point is it was never an investment property.
The "Rent" on the contract is maybe €100 p/m, so the company effectively writes that off as a loss.

I know another lad who left a heap of steel out in the elements for a few years to write it off as a loss.

Ireland is VERY friendly to companies and business and so long as people aren't absolutely taking the p*$$, the tax man is mostly prepared to turn a blind eye to it.

I get what you're saying but I'd also take their "stats" with a pinch of salt. As statistic is just a view port of data that the person creating the statistical view wants you to see.

I'd say there aren't terribly many $100k+ jobs in the cheap CoL rust belt areas, but I take your core point. There are probably parts of the US I'd think about living if it doubled my salary (though the wife would probably disagree).

I don't think you could live a good life on $120k in say New York, San Francisco, San Jose or Seattle, certainly not as a family. You could probably live very well in some city in Alabama or Tennessee.....but could you hack all the country music?

I'd say it is way more difficult to adjust having a salary way above €78k and having a drop to that level than it would be to live on it having never earned more. I couldn't run my household on that, but that's because I have expenses that were predicated on my income. If I was earning say €78k, I wouldn't have taken on the same expenses. I've certainly lived (and indeed thrived and had a good time) at points of my life where my salary was substantially lower than that (even adjusted for inflation), I just had to think an awful lot more about my expenditure and had fewer luxuries.

When there are people actually struggling to get by on minimum wage jobs, I'd say it is a bit patronising to call living on €78k, 'surviving'. I'm sure someone earning a couple of million a year would say the same about how difficult it must be to 'survive' at my income level though; they likely have commitments to monthly bills that are already above my entire income.

It doesn’t work that way

Try it,

but when Revenue come down on top of you like a ton of bricks and you waste time and money on audits up to your ears from your rear, don’t come crying here

Your post basically comes down to “some people allegedly break law and get away with it”

But best of luck to anyone trying this strategy

The only department more competent than CSO this state has is Revenue

And with them you are “guilty until you prove your innocence”

I ran a business for over dozen years before going back to PAYE

Revenue are one department you don’t want to endup on wrong side of and actually have competent and intelligent people employed

and if you know someone breaking the law report them to Gardai and or Revenue

not patronising anyone, we’ve all been there and lived on less. To me it was surviving, like you said, budgeting for everything means no spontaneity. Yet many people manage under these circumstances and I have the height of respect for them.

No I couldn’t live with country music. It drives me nuts. Hence, the D&B, EDM is always loud in the car, kids (all grown) think I’m an embarrassment.😀

I know that wealth disparity is a growing trend, but that 78k for me is still a low bar for the top 10% in Ireland. Supposedly a rising tide raises all boats, that doesn’t seem to be the case in a country that is top 3 for “wealthiest” in the world. So the progressive tax system we have all been told would be fairer on workers, is not distributing that wealth anymore evenly than any other system. What’s the solution? I have no idea…that’s well above my pay-grade.

Agreed. I know of one family business where one parent is taking a FTE salary for working a two-day week, the child is employed on a full-time basis while studying in a different city and the parent lost it with the child who got a part-time job in the second city!!

Surely a lower bar for the top 10% of earners is a demonstration that it IS distributing the wealth more evenly than a system where the top 10% of earners are on multiples of the median salary?

As for solutions, I think that in any system of taxation, you'll have a substantial number of people that think whatever group they are in should pay less. As much as I'd like to pay less tax, from a more objective viewpoint I'm not convinced there's a problem that needs to be fixed here at all.

Looking at GINI coefficients, before tax we are ranked 32nd for wealth inequality among OECD countries, after tax we are 15th. We go from having very comparable wealth inequality to the UK and the US before tax to substantially less so after tax.

I would bet my entire pension that I will not pay 40% of it away in tax, neutralising the tax relief I get on pension investments.

We constantly hear about a ticking time bomb for pensions. No government in their right mind will want to discourage people from private pension investment, by making the tax relief non existent.

I know someone who, within the last 12 months, got an interview in PwC off the back of a referral from a very senior partner.

The manager & director conducting the interview were told in no uncertain terms to judge the candidate on their merits and ignore any connections that they might be aware of.

They did a good interview and were offered the role, but within a few months it was apparent that they weren't up to scratch and they were shown the door before probation ended. No special treatment - and probably more scrutiny than most if anything else. Most underperforming trainees are allowed see out the training contract before being moved on.

Glad to hear it, that is absolutely the way things should be done. As I said, my experience wasn't with PWC; happy to put the hands up and say so.

Oh no, these high earners will all leave the state and we'll lose all their tax payments. Whatever shall we do? All these talented people earning far more than they deserve.

Usually it's faceless people that are used as an example. They spent years in education and worked their way to the top blah blah. Let's look at a real life example. Ryan Turbrity worked hard and made it in RTÉ, earning a million at one stage. Was he worth a million? Not a chance. He was finally ousted and left the state.

Has RTÉ come crashing down? Has the Late Late Show been cancelled? No, life went on without him. It's the same with the faceless people some use as an example of who might leave the state.

Let them leave, theres loads of people who can replace them. The faceless people are the ones pushing up inflation let's not forget. Some people are comfortable living in a state where the top earners are earning many multiples more than those at the bottom. They play the poor mouth but they know how easy they have it.

Yeah all those talented surgeons heading for other countries. F them. Who needs em. Joe from the pub is ready to stand in to replace them.

Quoting 1 celeb example but ignoring the thousands of MNC & private sector workers earning 6 figures is your oversight here.

Its been pointed out that this small group are paying the vast majority of income tax, yet you think there will be no impact if they leave the country...

Hopefully you arent an accountant.

Here we go, the state will fall into ruins if these poor people have to pay a bit of tax. Let's get real here. These people won't leave and if they do, they won't find it so easy away from their cushy number and will come crawling back. It's time these people got a wake up call and learned what it's like in the real world.

The spin that the Indo put on it was that the state's tax base is at risk because of the overall proportion of the tax-take which comes from a relatively small number of taxpayers: If only a small number of MNC's moved their high paying execs from Ireland to somewhere else (which could easily happen), then it would have a large negative effect on the overall tax take.

Personally, I still know people who refuse to take overtime, because they have to pay 20% tax on it: they're so used to paying no Income tax on their first 37k (as a couple) that they aren't willing to work more for less. However this means they're not really emotionally invested in how their taxes are used.

The truth hurts!