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Deadpool & Wolverine - *spoilers from post 183*

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    #122
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Saw it this afternoon - I enjoyed it quite a bit, I'd say it was better than the 2nd film but slightly lower than the 1st film in terms of quality. It's a bit feeble that they keep bringing Morena Baccarin back but clearly have _no_ idea what to do with her, but aside from that it was a fun, daft romp in the same way as the previous films.

    I can only assume that there's some kind of change coming in the MCU given the

    "The multiverse isn't working" bit to camera.

    The mid-credits stuff was kinda weak - a back-patting "let's celebrate the Fox X-Men films" montage of behind the scenes footage, and

    a gag about Johnny Storm running his mouth and earning his fate at the hands of Cassandra Nova

    As far as critic reviews - I'm loathe to dismiss them outright, but while I've often found Clarke reliable the two things that would make me less interested in his review are:

    1. He gave the '09 Abrams Trek movie 5 stars, and openly admitted that it was at least partly due to his nostalgia for the original series, and
    2. He doesn't generally have any interest in superhero films.

    Nothing wrong with either of those things, but combined they tell me that he's not going to be a useful barometer for a film like this, even though he clearly understands that personal affection and nostalgia can be a factor in how much someone enjoys a film.

    Post edited by Fysh on


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    #123
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,989 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Went to see it earlier, it was grand, tried a bit too hard and I'd probably seen too many trailers so each scene just went into each other. 1 down side that might annoy some people if you probably need to have seen Loki for some of the scenes but then they completely ignored the end of Loki.



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    #124
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,804 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I really enjoyed it. Yes, the setup and resolutions to both Wade and Logan's stories weren't really earned, Cassandra Nova was great but her story was bland, it relied very heavily on nostalgia and references, and many of the jokes were really overdone (especially Nicepool).

    But it was just a lot of fun, had some great moments and jokes, and even though it relied heavily on nostalgia and references, when they worked they worked really well.

    So yeah, nothing amazing, but pretty much exactly what you'd expect. I think it achieved what it was capable of achieving.

    Ryan Reynolds these days though reminds me of Jim Carrey in some regards, where he can't just make a joke, he has to give 3 or 4 different versions of the same joke each time.



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    #125
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    there is only one *redacted* – and there's only going to be one redacted

    Fantastic.



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    #126
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,928 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    we were supposed to be surprised about a character being in the film when she turned up at the premiere? (which i saw on the side of youtube?) it seemed like it was filmed that way…



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    #127
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    When can we talk normally about it?



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    #128
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,928 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122427604#Comment_122427604

    said person also turned up at the end of the movie, they couldnt get the other 3 back for that scene?



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    #129
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,143 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Never did I ever think this would happen Ryan loves everyone unconditionally



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    #130
    Shred
    Registered Users Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭Shred


    Saw it last night and really enjoyed it, it definitely needs at least a second watch with the rate of jokes/quips/nods/winks; it’s always good to be in a cinema with an audience for a film like this - lots of belly laughs! 8/10.



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    #131
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122426903#Comment_122426903

    Off topic from the movie but thats the issues with career reviewers in a way. Its their job but its inevitable there will be some bad reviewer-film matchups that will lead to unreliable reviews as said reviewer is just utterly disinterested going in. Clarke doesnt like the genre and didn't care for the first Deadpool. He was never going to like this regardless of what was on screen.



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    #132
    Arghus
    Registered Users Posts: 14,527 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Very entertaining twitter spat between Donald Clarke and the comedian Tony Cantwell about his review of Deadpool.

    One of those good ones where each party embarrasses themselves.



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    #133
    Cotts72
    Registered Users Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭Cotts72


    Id imagine said character turned up at the end as she had nothing left in their world and they had naturally bonded with the variant she had met....the other 3 may have returned to their worlds



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    #134
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,804 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428267#Comment_122428267

    Yeah I think even though they weren't each other's Logan and Laura, they definitely connected in the Void and kind of needed each other, whereas the other three obviously helped but there was never any real connection between them and Logan or Wade, so chances are they returned to their own world or some new world. I didn't think there was any issue with them not being at the meal at the end, nor would I imagine Blade especially would have joined them even if he was invited.



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    #135
    Bobson Dugnutt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Most critics (movies, music, TV, restaurants) come across as smug and pretentious arseholes.



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    #136
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428053#Comment_122428053

    Is that any different from a reviewer who loved the first two films going into this one, though? That'd be just as biased, in another direction. This is neither here nor there on Donald Clarke as an individual reviewer, but films aren't only meant to be reviewed by someone inclined to like it. Speaking as someone who despised the first Deadpool film - genuinely one of the most miserable experiences I've had in a cinema in the last ten years - I personally find more value in reviews of this from people who didn't care for the earlier films either when deciding whether to go see it (especially given there's loads of interesting films out at the moment).

    I have no intention of watching this in the cinema so can't possibly fairly comment on whether the final film is actually worthy of one-star review scorn, but certainly nothing in the most negative reviews seems too wide off the mark of how I felt about the first film. Though admittedly it'd take universal raves for me to go see any Ryan Reynolds / Shawn Levy film 😅



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    #137
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428238#Comment_122428238

    I checked Clarkes twitter for this and he has also claimed this is worse than Madame Web. Similar to his review of Endgame and the "controversy" it generated I think Donny is just tryna be edgy and clickbaity and make a name for himself again.



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    #138
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428366#Comment_122428366

    🙄 And as we've now entered the point of inane generalisations 'cos people don't like the thing you like, I'm outta here.



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    #139
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428433#Comment_122428433

    But you kind of prove my point. You didn't like the first one and have no intention of seeing this. Thats cool. But (no offence) I wouldn't be overly fussed of a review you do because you are clearly outside of the target market for Deadpool films. I'd be more interested in the reviews of people who actually wanted to see this and what they thought. It doesn't have to be loved but you'd want some kind of neutral base. Its clear from past reviews Clarke (like yourself) wouldn't have watched this unless it was literally his job so being essentially forced to watch something you don't want to won't lead to a very accurate review.



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    #140
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428532#Comment_122428532

    But our respective posts just proves we're two people looking for very different things from a review of Deadpool & Wolverine :) It's not possible for a single reviewer from a single paper to hit both those bases (let alone the multidue of different bases out there), so they have do the only thing they can do: give their own personal opinion, which is exactly their job! TBH given the dire state of publishing, having staff in a non-specialist film outlet dedicated to film reviewing is actually a luxury for a lot of publications these days - so they can only do their best trying to review both the biggest releases and the niche and independent stuff they might want to champion or simply weigh in on (there's two five star reviews of new films this week in the Irish Times, which is a rarity). Also, if someone who hated the first film came out and said 'I actually liked this one!' or vice versa (which has happened with many series in the past - including in the MCU), then that'd be a very valuable perspective to have out there too.

    A review can only be honest, not 'accurate' - 'accuracy' doesn't mean much in subjective criticism.



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    #141
    Shred
    Registered Users Posts: 2,495 ✭✭✭Shred


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122422586#Comment_122422586

    Nah. While I’ve enjoyed the hell out of numerous MCU films (and some not so much) and had some of my best, recent, experiences at the cinema watching them, I’m certainly no fanboy (I’ve never read a single one of the comics tbh).

    The point is, Clarke has history of this type of thing and his review of this film is simply a hatchet job, it’s eyerollingly predictable. Which is a pity as he can write some good stuff when he’s interested.

    There are other reviewers at the IT, maybe someone like Tara Brady would be more suitable and take the emphasis off the word ‘critic’ when reviewing these films. I’m not looking for someone to fawn over a film, just deliver a fair and balanced assessment is all.

    Post edited by Shred on


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    #142
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428584#Comment_122428584

    But again I think we are agreeing in a way. The idea of one person reviewing all films is quite ridiculous. I'd find it very hard to find someone who enjoys Eli Roth filmwork also enjoying the latest Sydney Sweeney rom-com.

    People have different interests so ending up getting someone utterly disinterested in genre to try to review a film in that genre when they would rather be washing their hair is bizarre. Its practically impossible for a disinterested person to enjoy something they don't want to watch.

    Clarke was never going to like this and it coulda been accurately predicted months ago.



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    #143
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428718#Comment_122428718

    Clarke was never going to like this and it coulda been accurately predicted months ago.

    Which then begs the question why worry of focus on Clarke in the first place?

    The only time Donald Clarke ever gets mentioned around here, it's to pelt onions and deride his opinion. I don't read his work, don't find him worth my time, and would be entirely ignorant of his thoughts or biases were it not for this forum dredging him up for some booing from the audience 🤣

    I see Kermode didn't like it either but has taken the entirely rational point of view that he thought it crap but that's just him and so 🤷‍♂️ if people wanna like this they will.



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    #144
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,928 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    they are seriously trying to spoil this movie for everyone

    https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1816692080984387947?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1816692080984387947%7Ctwgr%5Eddcc3448419dd2d79bb9f11bbf5271a6f5582aa3%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fvariety.com%2F2024%2Ffilm%2Fnews%2Fdeadpool-wolverine-ryan-reynolds-hugh-jackman-surprise-comic-con-1236085835%2F



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    #145
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,697 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428873#Comment_122428873

    I've no idea who he was till yesterday. I looked up his previous Deadpool reviews to see he didn't like them, so not liking the third when he didn't like the others is hardly an earth shattering revelation. I checked Logan which he liked before remembering Logan broke away from the superhero genre into an utterly different essential standalone film so not a great baseline for his affinity to superhero films. But its still safe to say he is not liking a Deadpool movie.

    Then checked Endgame to see he didn't like it and then milked a rake of articles whining about people disagreeing with his Endgame review. So that gave me enough info to know his shtick. Seeing him then claim on Twitter that Madame Web was better than this just confirmed hes tryna haul some clicks in a la his Endgame shtick.

    i've no idea why is being treated as credible in this thread when his review was pre-determined a la the vocal youtubers undoubtedly whining theres a female villain in their Deadpool & Wolverine movie.



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    #146
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428718#Comment_122428718

    Don't think we're going to agree on this one :) Having one or two film reviewers covering the whole spectrum of new film releases is pretty standard operating procedure for any major newspaper, and has been for a century. Sadly, resources are tighter than they've ever been to expand beyond that model. I've read Donald Clarke's reviews for many years and long enough to know he's more than capable of giving mainstream blockbuster fare highly positive reviews, so not particularly sure why this negative one is causing so much outrage!

    Anyway, the reviews from people more in line with my own take on the Deadpool series have suggested this one won't be for me, but hopefully those who've been looking forward to it enjoy it.



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    #147
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122428937#Comment_122428937

    Donald Clarke gets trotted out a lot on this forum over the last few years, usually as a rod to beat critics with - what do they know, look what score Clarke give on X etc. etc. Maybe it's just that he's Irish, writing for the country's largest newspaper he gets more eyeballs and becomes this lightning rod for agitation.

    And perhaps he is just drumming up some clicks, but that's hardly a particularly egregious action given the way (film) journalism has gone in the last 10 years; and given how often he will get name-dropped here there's justification in his actions too. I don't even look for critics I 100% agree on - 'cos where's the fun in that? - but there's more than enough out there to satisfy anyone's church of taste I never understand the fixation with demonising the entirety of professional critics cos Guy X didn't like Film Y. It has already started before you posted & it's fúcking asinine and obnoxious.



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    #148
    Fysh
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 11,060 Mod ✭✭✭✭Fysh


    Having read Clarke's review, it's definitely a "I didn't like this and we might as well double down on it and get some clicks" effort. Totally fair for him to dislike it (he's long been a critic that I find a useful bellwether for my own likely response to films, but he has a bit of a blindspot to his own personal biases that would, if actually discussed in his reviews, make them more useful - as mentioned earlier see also his ludicrously over-generous review of Star Trek '09).

    In terms of the film - he's not wrong to note e.g. an element of the tedious Comedy Roast formula to some of the joked about the MCU, but him disliking puerile humour is not the same as puerile humour being inhererently meritless. And in fact posturing aside, this film definitely sands down some of the aspects of the first film's humour - e.g.

    No more talk about Vanessa being a sex worker, or having at least as filthy a sense of humour as Wade

    Clarke ending his review yearning for the Batman '66 TV series version of superhero satire feels like an admission that he's not the target audience for the film. Which, again, fine. But just say that. (I often found myself disagreeing with Roger Ebert's reviews of films, but his idea of trying to identify the target audience of a film and reviewing it with them in mind is one I quite like).



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    #149
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,482 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I dunno, I think the idea of a good, vicious pan has existed long before 'clickbait' became a thing, so I'm reticent to accuse any review of just being negative for clicks' sake (and I don't think Clarke's review here is particularly egregious in that regard either - it's perfectly well argued and pretty tame as far as pans go). Critics have long enjoyed going to town on films they disliked. Some of the best known critics - from Kael to Kermode - are as famous for their rants as they are for their championing of particular films.

    Long may critics continue to pour scorn on the films they despise, regardless of said films' popularity or commercial success.



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    #150
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,634 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122429524#Comment_122429524

    You say this, and Mark Kermode's review of Sex & the City 2 was the immediate instance that popped into my head; not just a fantastically entertaining rant but - arguably - more entertaining than the film itself.

    https://youtu.be/uHeQeHstrsc



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    #151
    Irish Aris
    Registered Users Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭Irish Aris


    I have stopped reading critic reviews altogether. I've been watching films for 35 years now and I have a very good instinct on whether I would like a film based on a synopsis or cast and crew. And I also understand what a film is about and manage my expectation.

    And I would most certainly pay zero intention to anyone that has made it clear that they are not a fan of the MCU or super hero films in general. As a fan I'd rather exchange comments/opinions with people that generally like this type of film.



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