Your New WHS Index

actually

im pretty sure i was able to export from club end when i was mucking around with it a while back… maybe ask your handicap sec if he can export information for yo

Short answer for GI is no and Masterscoreboard I'm not familiar with. I was looking for the same thing with GI/Clubv1 to help my club's handicap lads but to no avail. Maybe in future they'll make it easier. For now I think you need to manually do it or try to dump the page to excel/pdf in some way and manipulate it. Some smart person probably knows how to use python/data scraping tools to extract it but that is well beyond my means.

Does Howdidido not include this or similar in Stats section?

Just to add to that, once a full 9 is played, the other 9 can be sliced and diced. Our 10 hole (1-10) moved to a 13 hole this week (1-11,15, and 18).

The move to qualifying has been a huge success in our club imo. Average winning scores are down about 5 shots and lets just say that the winners enclosure has a new lease of life.

We had a 21 win the 10 hole one week. 31 wasn't unusual last year.

That was parlance who mentioned scores being reduced in a 10 hole comp vs the same non counting comp last year.

In a non counting comp, players tend to have higher scores. Mostly as the pressure is off and they know it doesn't affect their handicap. They are also usually using forward tees which might not be rated and have placing/cleaning everywhere. This makes it much easier to score.

There is also a small cohort who "protect" their handicap in counting comps. When they realise a good score is likely they pull the handbrake with a few holes left to have a score that is not good enough to appear on their record. Not happy that their score will win a big comp or 1st place so they are just bandits and everyone despises it.

When a comp is counting it's "real" golf on proper tees with no placing.

Typically most non-counting golf is during winter time anyway. Being able to have 10-17 holes counting is brilliant.

True for ya.I try my damnedest every comp.Fact i am useless doesnt srop me trying😁

not true, Handicapmaster gives stats for every hole along with your best and worst on each hole

Definitely not. I don't care when it's not counting

That must be something set by your club. Mine says "Displaying records covering last 9 months (or last 15 competitions processed)."

There is a thing called PCC now, which is similar to the old CSS, it can adjust the difficulty from -1 to +3 shots (so 1 shot easier to 3 shots harder).

It's not driven by weather but by scoring, and it's tricky to find the actual calculation anywhere. I know they changed the calc in the last year or so to make them be applied more often

It should be clear on the app if you look at the round to see if there is a PCC applied. In essence, a PCC of 2 would turn your 34 point round into the equivalent of a 36 point round.

Really interesting thanks. Had a look at Corballis with BGS this year as that’s the hardest conditions I recall playing in and sure enough a PCC of 3.

This is the standard 18 hole calc:

(113 / Slope Rating) x (Adjusted Gross Score - Course Rating - PCC adjustment)

And I've attached a doc here that shows the 9-hole score details

Not necessarily but the differential will vary by how hard or difficult the course was and the number of holes played. You can play 9-17 holes to your hearts' content. However, if you go to play competitions/opens then you might not be eligible to win prizes. Many clubs will say you must have a minimum number of counting (18 hole) comps on your record and fully developed index. The goal of the WHS here is to try to get more people to have handicaps and also to have more scores on people's record. In theory the more scores on your record, the more accurate and up-to-date it should be relative to how you're playing.

I don't think GI will ever show this differential calculation or the logic behind it. You can figure it out by calculating the 9 hole differential as the 9 hole courses will have a slope/rating and then subtracting the difference to the overall differential. Unfortunately for 10-17 hole cards you don't have a slope/rating for those holes so you can't subtract it.

The PCC calculation is shrouded in mystery because it's considered proprietary and won't be published. You could have half the field shooting the lights out and the last 20% being miles off their handicap range. It's supposed to all balance out but in the absence of any transparency, it's hard to know. All I can say is I have never seen so many net 68 or better returns in a medal but no PCC on the day.

Having been in favour of the WHS when first introduced I'm now really sick of it. My home course is not long, or heavily bunkered but it's tight off the tee and has small undulating greens. Most of which are raised, so when you miss the ball goes quite a bit away. I'm an 8.4 index and only get 7 shots, best round I've had this year is 37pts, find it very hard to score well at home. Had 39pts on my first open singles at another club that is 300-400 yd longer but more open and larger greens. I had 10 shots there. No way it's 3 shots harder than my home course. Didn't play unreal but it was more forgiving.

Then our captains prize this weekend. I qualified with a nett 70 and played decent. Leading qualifier was a 35hcp who's playing golf with years and had a nett 60. Ridiculous. Next best qualifiers had a nett 65. I would have had to shoot a -6 gross in the 9 hole playoff just to catch him if he played to his handicap, which was 18 shots for 9 holes. It's a joke.

My wife played in a foursomes competition she and a friend qualified for last week. The played off half of their combined handicaps, which was 18. The eventual winners were playing off 56.

but 9 hole competition always counted towards handicap so no real difference there.

The system doesn’t calculate cuts. It calculates score differentials. Playing a really good round doesn’t necessarily mean a cut will be applied to a Handicap Index.

The system works out a score differential that keeps the SD for the 9 holes actually played consistent, so to half it would be disingenuous

"Playing a really good round doesn’t necessarily mean a cut will be applied to a Handicap Index."

That's exactly the part that I've had so many conversations about, particularly with older guys that I play with, my own father included. A lot of them simply cannot change their thinking away from "good round = automatic cut". I don't actually blame them tbh, after whatever number of years of CONGU, its hard to think of handicaps as something new, and to be fair the idea that two guys could shoot 35pts and one could get cut and one could get an increase is pretty off the wall for some people.

I had a situation about a month ago where an average enough score on the Saturday of 35pts got me a reduction because the worst of my counting 8 was dropping out, and coincidentally on the Sunday a better score of 36pts got me an increase because the best of my counting 8 was also dropping out. I know its done by gross scores and all that, but trying to explain it to the regular 4 ball was funny !! Actually it might have been Sunday to Saturday, but it was consecutive rounds.

Meh, I know its here to stay, but I have to admit to coming full 180 on WHS, thinking it was great at the start, but now I think its absolutely awful in an Irish golfing context.

I think there's a lot of truth in that. The question i'm slightly conflicted over (insofar as any of this actually matters 😁!), is that the nature of WHS makes huge volatility almost necessary or an integral part of it. Introducing lower caps makes it a kind of hybrid with CONGU. Almost like "….yeah, its your average but not too much….." The whole premise of WHS is to be a measure of current form rather than CONGU which was always regarded as potential. I'm not sure they are compatible tbh.

I know ultimately the answer is we have to change our mindset, but its easier said than done !