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Vice President Kamala Harris vs Donald Trump 2024

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  • Registered Users Posts: 83,183 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    Ah I see what you mean now

    Here is a news report on it from August of 2020

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/kamala-harris-scored-most-liberal-us-senator-2019

    Reports on said link being deleted https://www.foxnews.com/media/webpage-rated-kamala-harris-most-liberal-senator-2019-suddenly-disappears

    Here is the govtrack page

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/kamala_harris/412678/report-card/2019

    Wisconsin watch talking about it

    https://wisconsinwatch.org/2024/07/kamala-harris-liberal-senator-wisconsin-fact-abortion-climate-medicare/

    She was 1million percent said to be the most liberal senator in 2019



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,183 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    She was quoted as saying she didnt want people removed from family. That was one of her issues with ICE. One I have no problem with. But taking powers away from ICE is the wrong move. Giving more power to ICE would be the correct one. There are poor conditions with immigration. But then again she has failed when it comes to managing immigration.

    Any thoughts on wanting less police? Surely you dont think that their operation is also poor enough to warrant dismantling?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    That's NOT giving her responsibility for the border.. Jesus why is this so hard for some people.

    She was asked to work with the countries in the Northern Triangle on the root causes of Immigration.

    You know - stuff like poverty, crime , depravation etc. to see if they could help those countries keep their people at home by making "home" safer, more attractive etc.

    It has been shown that spending some money on a new health centre,school or even basic sanitation is much more cost effective than spending the same money on border guards in terms of encouraging those people to stay put.

    However , That is NOT responsibility for Border security or policies around actions taken at the border or staff levels etc. etc.

    That is not the "Border Czar" as the GOP have invented whole cloth.

    The person responsible for deciding what happens at the border in terms of what teams are sent where , who they arrest and what they get arrested for and so on is Majorkas.

    They have already tried and failed to impeach him.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    She may or may not be the "most liberal". That is subjective.

    She was called labelled by GovTrack as the "Most Liberal" in 2019. That is not subjective. That is certainly not a "Donald Trump Lie". It is factual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45,486 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    I'd love to see you Trump get quizzed on the Epstein stuff in a debate. That would be interesting…



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,770 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Im confused. Is liberal good or bad now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    FactCheck

    https://www.factcheck.org/2024/07/factchecking-vances-attacks-on-harris/

    In 2021, Biden tapped Harris to head up a Central American initiative called the “Roots Causes Strategy,” an effort to “address the root
    causes of migration” from “from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras.”
    It seeks to deter migration from those countries by, among other things,
    providing funds for natural disasters, fighting corruption, and
    creating partnerships with the private sector and international
    organizations.

    In a meeting on immigration on March 24, 2021, Biden announced that he had tapped Harris to “help
    in stemming the movement of so many folks” from Mexico and the Northern
    Triangle (El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras).

    I doubt anyone in Blue ever (at least not jokingly) called her the Border Czar. That is not the point being made though is it?

    Was she in charge of the border? It was her job to "help stem the movement of so many folk" from Mexico and the Northern Triangle, as Biden said.



  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    Liberal is good

    Extreme liberal (wanting 700 genders, abortions without restrictions, assisted suicide, legalise all drugs and defund the police and military being some examples) is not good



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I think "Defund the police" is a bit of a misnomer really , another thing blown out of proportion for the GOP.

    The Police in the US are sent in to far too many situations where they are not needed and are not trained or suitable for.

    Diverting some of the money spent by the police on buying MRAPs and other military hardware and the like into more social workers and mental health professionals so that the police aren't used in those scenarios where their "conflict 1st" approach leads to far far too many tragic outcomes , would not be a bad thing in general.

    Suggesting that there are more effective ways of making society safer than simply putting more and more "armed boots on the ground" really isn't some kind crazy idea. It makes sense and has been done with huge success in multiple countries around the world.

    But in the binary world of US politics if you say "hey can we think about how we might better spend this money" it becomes "Ahhh.. They want to get rid of the police , they want to leave you exposed and at risk of murder from those damn immigrant death squads!!!!"

    Hyperbolic nonsense.

    It's impossible to have a conversation with Republicans in the US about how to fix the structural societal problems in the country primarily because they refuse to accept that the US is anything less than absolute perfection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,183 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    like her I don’t think you need 4 or 5 cops to murder a guy in broad daylight for suspicion of a fake $20 bill.

    I think US cops need more than 21 weeks average training. I also think we should stop getting our training from Israel of all apartheid places



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    That’s subject to interpretation in terms of content and context. I’ve read that Harris was not specifically assigned by Biden to manage the southern border; rather Harris was given a diplomatic duty, which past VPs typically do, to investigate and influence the Central American governments to mitigate the immigration problem from their countries, as well as block immigration through their respective borders. She failed to succeed in this diplomacy action, as many past administrations have, regardless of party.

    What most American voters fail to realize is that only about half of the illegal immigrants in the United States came illegally across the southern border. The other half came legally to the United States and overstayed their visas, and thereby became illegal accordingly.

    Many of these overstayed foreigners were of the tens of thousands of college and university students in study abroad programs seeking and paying for US 4-year and graduate degrees. Others came as tourists and liked what they found in the US and overstayed. This obviously doesn’t fit with Trump’s claim of undesirable illegals that are rapists, criminals, insane patients, and terrorists sneaking into the United States.

    We could also add the Dreamers to this lot of illegals that are hoping for US citizenship that are working in the United States, and paying taxes, and buying goods and services, and not members of Trump’s hugely exaggerated undesirable claims.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Thanks for confirming my point.

    She was NOT responsible for the border.

    Yes she was tasked with working on longer term programs to help reduce the "desire" to immigrate from those areas but again that is not responsibility for the border.

    Border Control is not "working to reduce the root causes of immigration".

    They are related but very different things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,183 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    gov track can call her a warm bowl of potato soup but they aren’t authority on anything?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Did illegal border crossings not decrease across this time?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    She mentions police reform and that adding more police to a system is not the right solution. Hardly mind blowing or "defunding" the police.



  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    No they increased

    Adding police to the lower income areas is 100% the answer. Adding solutions is the answer



  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    on March 24, 2021, Biden announced that he had tapped Harris to “help
    in stemming the movement of so many folks”

    Either she was called it or she wasnt

    The fact is they have deleted the page. That is a fact. You can read their scoring technique underneath the term most Liberal



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    According to FactCheck.org in “Fact checking Vance’s attacks on Harris,” 25 July 2024, online, they debunk both allegations that Harris wanted to defund the police as well as ICE. They too give extensive quotes with citations, in summary reporting that Harris did not specifically say what Vance was claiming; essentially Vance was twisting her words, taking Harris out of context for political and not factual purposes.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Apologies, someone else posted a link only a few pages ago showing that the countries she was tasked with engaging with at the root reduced their illegal immigration from 44% to 21%,

    Also adding police without addressing how they police, and how the justice system works is not a solution. They are all ready at a far higher number of LEOs per capita than us and most EEA countries. Not saying any country is perfect but somehow are not having all the same issues but have less cops per capita.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38,440 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I don't know how anybody votes for him but millions do unfortunately.

    I've friends who are life long democrats and they are extremely worried that Trump will beat her.

    Trump basically called her anti-Semite and I know exactly what he's at. Right now Jews are controversial for supporting Israel.

    In my opinion he's put her in an impossible position. If she defends herself it's revealed that she's married to a Jew, if she doesn't she's been labelled.

    I'm of the opinion she has to defend herself because there is a powerful segment of the media that is Jewish and they won't be happy if she doesn't call Trump on it.

    He's a horrible person and he'll keep flinging dirt. My opinion is you don't get into the mud with him and keep yourself above it all.

    My concern as I said earlier is that there's a lot of people out there who won't vote for Trump but mightn't go to the polls at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,003 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Adding problems to a problem is not a solution. You need to add trained people to a situation. The US police have inadequate training.

    One opened fire on a suspect not so long ago because acorns fell on his car. Adding more of that a tense scenario is not a solution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    Sure, I provided you with the link to fact check…………………😉

    I also provided you with the link where she very much talks about cutting police funding and using it in other sectors such as education. While yes context matters and she may not have said she wants to "defund" the police, she HAS said that she wants to use the money that would be for the police, for others areas such as eduction.


    I have provided you with the video. I dont mean it in a bad way mate but there is very little more I can do to literally give you source proof. Unless you dont believe her?



  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    Fair point and I see where you are coming from.

    But additional training is a cost. When you reduce the budget for law enforcement it is going to make quality worse not better.

    The situation surrounding the killer acorn happened because police feel they don't have the resources. Police pressure and mistake are happening as a result of over reliance on over time and stretching personal.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Because funding in the US is already quite high for law enforcement, with worse outcomes compared to the EU. On a related note, there is extensive peer reviewed research linking increased school leaving age and/or increase education with a decrease in crime. It's actually not a terrible idea, although shouldn't be done as bluntly as take money from one and give to the other but those nuances can't be reached in soundbite interviews.



  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    Very balanced argument.

    I do agree it's not as simple as not taking money away or giving more money. If you double the budget, it's not going to automatically make it better. Better policy needs to be put in place also. I haven't read the research you are talking about but it does make sense. It is like the old addage of idle hands are the devil's tools (im not religious but I like their quote).



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Also, just to make this point one more time, the Democrat party in the US are not Left wing, they are a right wing party, just more to the left than the Republicans. I always find that annoying. A lot of left wing people may vote for them but that does nto make them left wing, it is just the best of two options in many scenarios.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Website ranks her as most liberal of all senators and most of us would probably disagree in many respects. As a software engineer, I can comfortably say that algorithms can and often do get it wrong.

    There does appear to be a basis for her being liberal but in 2019 it was largely around outlawing things like fracking, reducing greenhouse gas emissions and being particularly progressive on things like healthcare. So wanna start pointing to the horrifying bills she sponsored in 2019? That's what it's based on. You've basically been outraged by a score but are pretty oblivious to why she scored like that. It's not due to highly controversial views or anything.

    https://www.city-journal.org/article/analysis-of-kamala-harris-economic-record#:~:text=In%20fact%2C%20her%20overall%20voting,from%20that%20of%20her%20boss.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 306 ✭✭Redliketoast


    No argument there. I think most people who are interested in US politics call them left as they are left of republicans. They do attract some liberals. For example JFK, Clinto and Obama ate all left leaning. Sanders very left and Biden left leaning. Harris is a little further left.

    So while yes the party might not be officially left, it's members often are



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