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Kilkenny GAA Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tbiggertycome


    So looking at the panel this year I would be saying the following should retire or consider their position for various reasons.

    Wally, Buckley, Fogarty, R Reid, TJ, E Murphy, Conor Delaney, Tommy Walsh. I would say there is little doubt the first 3 will go. The next three it's harder to know lots of rumour and small talk, I think TJ should walk and not chase numbers. I was always a huge fan of Delaney, I don't think he ever got a fair crack of the whip and neither Cody then or Lyng now seem to trust him. Likewise with Tommy, I think he's a good hurler but I think he's head must be melted and I struggle to see him bouncing back to his best. I think if he was coming through as a hurler instead of Jackie Tyrrell at that time he could have had a similar career, I think the game has moved on and he doesn't seem to suit the modern style or at least how we've been trying to deal with it. I would think he'll stay but I think most would agree we need a new corner back.

    My biggest gripe with Lyng was that he didn't trust the young lads and keep them in games when things got tough. They were either subbed or were dropped the next day. Lads are saying Clare had older players too, as did Cork and Limerick. The difference is they all gave young players, good chances over the last few years and weren't quick to discard them when things got a bit tough. Those young lads were all playing well this year. I think the problem is now we need to have a big turnover of players but we've given the young players very little exposure over the last few years.

    I think Kilkenny could struggle mightily with so many green young lads starting next year. Not because their not good enough but for any young lad starting out at intercounty you want to have plenty of experienced heads around you so you can ease into it. Unfortunately because of the way the last 2-3 years have been handled player wise, instead of a transition (I fear we'll end up) with a bump in the road, which if its not managed correctly could easily derail our senior team for a good while (years).



  • Registered Users Posts: 646 ✭✭✭Nickindublin


    Thats a very good analysis. Lyng to me is a poor mans Cody so far. He has very similar traits. Discarding players with the slightest whim and not giving them time. Cody could do it and not be questioned but Derek has not earned it yet.

    I believe we need a complete new approach. I donrt know how Lyng is regarded by the players or what he is. Is he like Cody or is more approachable? IMO we need a different approach both on and off the field by the manager. What worked 10 years ago will not work today. I fear Lyng is being a bit to similar to Cody both on and off the field. Certainly on it not much has changed. I dont know if he stong enough to make or take big decisions. Time will tell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭jimmythesulk


    All this talk about how we can improve as a county and nothing being mentioned of the wasteland that is south Kilkenny. Clubs like Piltown, Mooncoin, Slieverue and Kilmacow provide nothing for our senior hurling team and haven't for decades. They may as well be in Waterford the use they are to us. Could the county board not employ a development officer down there and even if it leads to finding a few decent hurlers it can only help out senior hurlers long term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 197 ✭✭jamesbond2022


    You could say the same for barrow rangers blacks and whites graignamanagh callan Gowran up until recently

    Dickboro for all the advantages they have haven’t given us a top county player since Buckley

    Clara haven’t exactly had a lot of county men the last few years mullinavat also

    Ballyragget another team

    Tullougher mooncoin glenmore thomastown have all provided plenty of players on underage teams the last few years

    I don’t think you can draw a line across the county and say one side is a waste land there’s clubs all over the county not producing senior inter county players

    Admittedly it is harder for the clubs you mentioned as they are mostly junior clubs and flip fop between junior and intermediate regularly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 984 ✭✭✭conor05


    Lohan can thank his two young corner backs Conor Leen and Adam Hogan this year.


    Them two lads played a huge part in Clare winning the All Ireland.

    Leen didn’t even start the first Munster match, only used barely as a sub in the league.


    Everyone knew the Kilkenny team for championship by January, so so predictable and no real competition for places.


    Lads use to saw eachother in half at an A v B in house match during the Cody era to try and get a starting jersey, that needs to happen again for Kilkenny to rise up to the very top.

    All seems a bit too comfortable for a lot of lads on the Kilkenny team/panel at present.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Village87


    Yes i agree regarding Harry Shine, when i state the importance of club hurling this year it is not essentially new talent but can players like Harry Shine stand up and be exceptional. Look at Mark Rogers who is similar to Harry Shine in a lot of regards he was outstanding this year and had an few excellent Fitzgibbon campaigns that brought him to a new level. That is what we need from some our younger players. Is Harry Shine in 3rd level ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Village87


    I agree the 2

    Yeah the 2 corner backs were exceptional especially Hogan, he has shored up a leaky backline. He should be a hurler of the year nominee. What a talent, he gave some exhibition in the second half v Kilkenny. Cleaned out Cody every way he could, he has some speed



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭hogans heroes


    THey had all those players for the previous 2 years and up to half time couple of weeks ago we were rolling over them.if mullen coady donnelly had got rolling same scenario



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭hogans heroes


    Agree 100%, can never understand why we never put Walter at full fwd , where he started as a minor and gone with coady and maybe wall in the 2nd half off him.right half fwd under the hogan was to predictable



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 984 ✭✭✭conor05


    If Lyng is to stay on as senior manager as I expect him to, what changes would lads like to see to his backroom team for year 3?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭JJs Left Hand




  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Was lyng to long with Cody, himself and Mcgarry were there under Cody for years. Men like Brother Damien may he rest in peace was a huge loss for talking to players.Jimmy Meagher was the best but he is gone now after what happened .It looks like for coaching they will have to bringi n somebody from outside or go with the last camogie manager.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    Tommy Shefflin would be one selector/trainer. I would always be enquiring about Tommy Walsh hoping for him to make a start into management. On the other hand it doesn’t need to be anyone famous just someone that knows what they’re talking about. Like Brookville a very knowledgeable man.



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭hogans heroes


    Tommy Walsh attending courses in abbotstown so must have an eye on going into coaching



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    that’s great news about Tommy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    there is a great article on Kilkenny GAA. Ie under coaching and development it lists the teams and mentors of all the development squads and who they are playing at the weekend, well worth a look and will show you where we are and how quick things can happen in a short space of time.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 298 ✭✭jimmythesulk


    Fred, on the south Kilkenny clubs:

    Please tell me what difference it would have made to our senior hurling team over the last few decades if these clubs were in Waterford?

    They need support from our county board or they won't produce any intercounty standard hurlers for the next few decades either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    I used to work down south a few years ago most of the clubs you mentioned have a fairly big population in comparison to other clubs lots of housing estates in Mooncoin,Kilmacow sliverue,Piltown and even Ballyhale . The work has to be done to get into these estates and get the young people playing .Now everyone will say the Boro have a huge pick that maybe so but the work that was put in over the years was Huge.but the above mentioned parishes are more localised and that is an advantage.




  • Registered Users Posts: 8 TipperaryFox


    Rural decline is having a significant impact on clubs up and down the country. It certainly is here in Tipp where Sars, Nenagh, Templemore ect have benifited greatly in the past 10 years. The town teams greatly boost our Senior team and if the big guns in any county don't pull their weight the county will always be swimming against the tide Corbett, Maher Brothers, Billy McCarthy, Mickey Cahill ect in recent times provided the core of top Tipperary teams. I spent 10 years working in Kilkenny and the Boro were hoovering underage titles during that time. How many of them went on to contribute for the county at senior level?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭JJs Left Hand


    In their defence their really good underage teams are probably only coming to age now so the next 3 or 4 years will tell a lot. I wouldn't be holding my breath though. Their advantage in all those teams that won consistently over 4 years, or whatever it was, was the balance of really good players they had across the 15 rather than a collection of superstars. Shine was probably their only stand out player throughout those years. Lots of really really good players but no superstar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 984 ✭✭✭conor05


    Ballyhale Shamrocks have been the big feeder club to the KK county panel since the 2000s anyway and it’s definitely the opposite of Dicksboro, I’ve been at under 13 ronin C matches against Ballyhale and they would barely have enough for a team, maybe 1 or 2 subs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    then the Ballyhale boys get all the games they need with no great expectations from them and eventually graduate to being good hurlers whereas with clubs with an abundance of players lose lads that might have improved if given game time.anyway time will tell with the Boro this year,with a few lads gone away it opens things up for the younger lads to come through.Hackett and Evan Murphy might be the ones to look out for.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 32 upnorth


    No, lots of good players…. Not really, really good



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    I would have to agree with you but only time will tell.on the country teams , the fairly big towns are after improving in the last few years and are actively giving the city underage teams a run for their money, Callan,Mooncoin,Castlecomer and Thomastown spring to mind. Then there’s barrow rangers with some very big housing estates and they are showing green shoots (feile)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭randd1


    Quite simple really. Change the rule.

    ”The hand that releases the ball cannot be the hand that strikes the pass”.

    Clears it all up.

    No ambiguity.

    No differing interpretations.

    A definitive black and white decision for players, refs, management teams, fans, pundits and commentators.

    No Sunday Game slow-mo and zooming in to see separation of 2mm to justify keeping the status quo while ignoring that the rule states clear striking action which due to its absence required the Sunday Game to come up with a slow-mo and zoomed in shot to overcome the lack of clear striking aspect of the refs call.

    No Sunday Game not knowing what clear striking action is.

    No Sunday Game showing three examples slowed down and zoomed in to overcome the lack of clear striking action part of the referees decision while not showing one of the 100 or so blatant throws between the two semi-finals as a counter-balance.

    And due to its black and white nature, a rule that can easily implemented at every grade and age group.

    Takes the refs out of the firing line by making the passing action defined so they don’t have to use personal interpretation and make bad calls.

    And most of all, removes the throw ball, an act of cheating, that is increasingly becoming central to how the game is being played in getting out of defence and setting up attacks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    As regards the small country clubs the local councils rural housing policies are terrible and do not help the local clubs retain there already small populations when somebody can’t even build on their own land.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭randd1


    Hard to know regarding population.

    If I was given a choice, I’d make half a kilometer from the ring road the parish border for the town teams in order to keep things even (obviously make slight exceptions like having a narrow strip out of town for things like the Village club grounds, things like that).

    The city is going to grow, and with it the population of the town teams if the parish rule stays in place as the town parishes push well outside the town currently. It may be possible in 20 years a third of the county will be within three clubs. That’s not good for the county, and it could be a disaster for the town clubs too trying to facilitate that.

    Either that or some kind of grandparents rule, where if a parent/grandparent is from another parish then the young lad can declare for that parish if he’s not making the A team of his home club.

    Probably not viable options, but migration, even within the county, is going to become a massive issue in the next decade or two, and the county board, hell the GAA in general, needs some sort of a plan in place to counter it. It’s already been a killer for some clubs, and we’re not heeding the warning.

    What that plan is I don’t know, but it’s definitely something we need to start planning for.

    Post edited by randd1 on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    I hear what you’re saying but it’s hard enough for a player to release the ball at the moment when surrounded by two or three opponents wrapping him up , it would be impossible with the new handpass .
    I understand something has to be done about the throw ball that’s going on at the moment but I’m convinced if refs blew for every handpass where they couldn’t see clear separation and didn’t get ridiculed for it , players would soon adapt and get back to performing a legal handpass every time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    I would agree with that to a certain extent whereas Danesfort ,Threecastles, Ballycallan,Bennetsbridge,Tullaroan etc would benefit,but O’loughlins would lose a lot of ground from Henneberry’s cross to Johnswell.But the idea is worth exploring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭✭randd1


    We’ve tried that though, it lasts about two rounds of the league and then we return to the “throw all you like” situation because we have lads, usually on the Sunday Game, saying the ref is ruining the flow of the game, ignoring that it’s the players making the fouls.

    And if the rule came in, there’s every chance players could get bottled up more. But there’s also every chance they’d have to avoid taking it in to contact and they’d play it quicker.

    There’s no point in arguing what could happen, because we don’t know what will happen. We gone only go on what we know, and what we know is that the throw, an illegal act of cheating, has effectively replaced the handpass and has become central to the sport.

    There’s far too much cheating and fouling going on in hurling, be it throw, steps, barging/charging, pulling/dragging, tactical fouling, or whatever.

    A ref these days if he was to blow for everything in a county match could easily blow for 100+ frees a game. That would be a disaster for the sport, but doesn’t it say a lot about the state of the sport that of the sport that a ref has to turn a blind eye to that much fouling/cheating in the first place?

    Hell, if the rules were to be applied rigidly, we couldn’t even play a match because no-one uses regulation sized hurls.

    Something has to give. The throw in my view has ramped things up massively, the abuses of steps as part of the run and throw game, the barging/charging knowing you can throw it you’re bottled up, the pulling/dragging required because you know if a players gets the ball in hand he can just throw it to another player.

    I think changing the handpass rule won’t solve all ills, but I reckon it’d clean up more than just the handpass as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭Pigeon Chaser


    I'm exiled in the West of Ireland ... But wondering if there is any murmurings at home about Lyng's future?

    This was a very poor year. The Leinster title papers over the cracks. Pretty much all went downhill since beating Limerick in the league semi final.

    Bringing Fogarty and Walter on to change the game against Clare showed he has no courage or ambition. Or indeed ideas.

    However, the Killian Doyle debacle in Carlow takes the biscuit. Should never have started and appears to be obvious nepotism.

    To be honest, I think it's time for a change of direction. Build a new team with a new leader.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭Charlie69


    It hasn’t been tried properly though…. the referees would need everyone’s support on it… this is where it all falls down in my opinion. The likes of Donal Og hammering refs for it on tv makes it very difficult. If the current rule was implemented properly it would soon cut out the throw ball because it would be so costly to your team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    KK U16B 3-17, DUB U16A 3-09. Played in paulstown was not out there in a few years,they have setup out there well done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭neverbet


    Took a lot of COURAGE 🫣to write that piece of poison …in EXILE!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    I thought he was spot on.who are you representing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 646 ✭✭✭Nickindublin


    I thought he was correct too. Im not for Lyng out but this season has being more cold than hot TBH.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    KK 1-22 WAT 0-16 U15

    Arrabawn quarterfinal?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭blackcard


    What about wording like ' A definite striking motion preceded by a definite backward motion of the hand'



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,947 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    Didn't see any "poison" just an opinion. I'd give lyng another year but he's not by any means above criticism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭neverbet


    I don't doubt you do. I represent a view different to you. I don't question the courage or integrity of any Kilkenny man or woman that puts themselves forward for management/ coaching of any of our county teams, do you have a problem with that? Criticism of how he/she does the job is part and parcel of the job and it should not extend beyond that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    maybe you should start questioning that seems to have us in the bind that we are in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    some people in management need to be pushed they don’t know when to give up. Look at Joe Biden.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    I presume you’re talking about my views on minor management, I’m afraid I’ll have to stick with those views as I couldn’t see any other alternative.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭tibruit


    I see that hurling journalist Kevin Cashman has died. A Cork man who clearly loved the game and all things Cork just as much as he hated Kilkenny. He had a great turn of phrase and brought games and players to life in his articles like no one else could. His pieces in the Sunday Tribune back when inter county summers were longer and slower were worth the purchase price on their own. I used to particularly get a kick out of reading what he had to say on the Sunday after a Kilkenny win. They don`t make them like him any more. May he rest in peace.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    Very good weekend underage results the two U14 teams are through to the Tony forristal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 48 lob it in


    The RTE 9 o clock news just called this afternoons football final "pulsating",my God I fell asleep twice looking at ,Galway are incredibly boring to watch.Give me hurling any day of the week.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,004 ✭✭✭Marrooned


    Jarlath burns gave an absolutely iconic speech today, if we could only get him to retract all the stupid rules brought in recently changes of all Irelands from September to July and the change of ages at minor level etc.



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