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Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Jet Black


    Can anyone tell me if there are any restriction on when you can apply for remote working? I didn't have any work I could do remotely but now after a few years I have some. They sent out an email at the start of the year and give a deadline for the closing date of applications but I don't see anything in the policy that says remote working can only be applied for only at certain times of the year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    IIRC, there was a "deadline" for applying for remote working on the NSSO website, though nobody could really explain why? New starters where I work have been getting access to remote working, no problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,257 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I think the idea there was that existing ad-hoc remote workers had to regularise their position by a certain date - get official approval, jump through the H&S hoops, etc.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭JennyZ


    If a Dept has a blended working policy of for example 3 days in office and 2 WFH (not set office days, can be picked on a weekly basis). If on annual leave then in a work week for example 2 days, technically how many office days should employee fulfill that week?

    Post edited by JennyZ on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭wench


    You'd need to check the exact wording, but in mine it is phrased as 40% attendance, 2 days minimum.
    So if we work a partial week, you still have to do the 2 days, even if that's 100% of that week!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    WFH is negotiated for each individual /role, but the most common arrangement in my dept is for staff to work the same set days in the office every week. I don't know anyone personally who decides what days they are working on a week-to-week basis.

    We also have 40% attendance in our policy, but no weekly minimum, and there is no written requirement anywhere within that policy for staff to "make up" for absence on leave on another day. (I was involved in drafting the policy.)

    Post edited by Ezeoul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Same as Ezeoul, here. 40% attendance, and we've a monthly roster. If in a particular month, you've a public holiday or other leave on what would have been one of your office days, happy days, you don't have to make it up. Most people will still end up working two days when there's a public holiday, but some don't, and the roster varies enough that it's not always the same people getting the public holiday on their office day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 376 ✭✭curiosity


    Same, but with a weekly 'anchor day' in each area/section when all staff are to attend office. The other day is your own choice.

    The two day rule is regularly monitored by HR.

    Post edited by curiosity on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,257 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Wow what a load of pointless micromanagement. Just let people get on with the job.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Mr lebowski


    Does anything happen if you don't complete it? I never filled it in or did most in my department as of yet.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,508 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    That headline should read 'Apple,Microsoft and SpaceX successfully removed high earners without having to offer redundancy and increased shareholder dividends.'



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 is that a button


    A post on the thread re 2022 AP PAS comp has suggested that newly appointed staff to DSP are now required to work full time in the office with no wfh. Some other comments on the thread also suggest that wfh may not be an option in general for many civil service positions going forward, particularly for newly appointed roles. Just wondering if anyone here has experienced this or has any further info? ...I thought wfh was now incorporated into most roles within civil service once its applied for & formally approved?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,899 ✭✭✭shmeee


    In relation to DSP.

    I can confirm a recent job offer for a CO stated the following:

    "No working from home options available for new staff for the first year due to on the job training. Limited after first year"

    And I believe "limited" is very limited. Don't know much more outside of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,663 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    It's a bit of a disaster. Some Depts. Hr are keeping a tight reign on it. Other depts. are leaving it to local management to decide on the business needs. I think the latter is the best option.



  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭daffodill50


    In my DSP office Staff on probation not permitted to apply for Blended until 1 year has been completed. Staff who've joined via mobility being told 6 months even though not on probation. Concerned about future of blended if this continues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭doc22


    I'd say it's a return to norms, training staff to systems and avalability of staff when WFH would be a problem .Funny enough the sec gen apparently was one of the most pro WFH among dep heads during and after the covid era.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I work with a guy who came to my office from DSP, they had a roster and got roughly one day WFH every fortnight.

    I'd be more concerned with the future of recruiting / retaining staff in DSP, if this is the attitude of senior management to WFH.

    If I was on a mobility list and no / very limited WFH was one of the conditions of a move there, I'd turn it down flat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21 is that a button


    Thanks for all the replies! 😊 It's interesting to hear the different perspectives. I wasn't aware there was such a push on in Civil Service to get people back to the office full time. I wouldn't mind full time in the office for the first while after appointment to allow for training on systems, etc but after that I would be expecting a bit of wfh. I'm currently on a panel but I would personally be reluctant to accept a full time office position. I agree with some of the previous comments here in that civil service may face problems with staffing if full time office becomes the norm..especially when many other companies have successfully embraced 2-3 days wfh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,663 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    It'll never happen. The public service will gain tallent by offering WFH.

    Im in justice now. I'll never go back to the office more than 1 day a week. And nobody will call me out on in.

    Hold tight.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,663 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Thats mad. I tell my staff who arent contractors to do what they want in terms of where they work from. Contractors who are paid double what we are do the heavy lifting. Simple as that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    AFAIK, there isn't. Certainly not in my Dept anyway. We are officially two days per week WFH and there is no move or inclination to increase that, and that includes for new staff.

    I have a friend in another Dept who is WFH 5 days a week (and that's officially) and a niece in another Dept who is 1 maybe 2 days per month, max.

    So it varies, greatly, depending on where you land.

    (eta) We also managed to train up new staff during Covid, when we were all WFH full time, so I think "training" can be a bit of a convenient excuse for Senior Management.



  • Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 2,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭Nigel Fairservice


    We are still 3 days a week WFH. No talk of that being rowed back upon. I think restricting WFH for new hires for a time is reasonable. It would be hard to work from home when you only half know what you're doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭Pamelabeasley


    would you mind saying which departments have those options? No problem if not. I’m considering joining the mobility list and more wfh would be something high on my list when selecting other depts!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I'd rather not state my own dept and I will ask my friend and my niece - if they're okay with it, I'll PM you. ;)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    Getting by and "making do" is not the same as optimum/best practice though - personally I think a brand new person to the CS working 2-3 days from home from the off is not fair on anyone - like you could not possibly expect them to be learning/onboarding at max effectiveness or assimilating to the culture, practices, norms, workflows, systems as quickly as spending a month or so full time around colleagues getting instant on the spot feedback and being able to ask questions in the moment etc.

    A lot of new staff would understandably not have the internal connections, confidence or seek help out as quickly remotely also. When new in a job leaving small things to fester for a few days, can slow up induction and learning significantly, and this is the most crucial time to set employees up for future success.

    No issues with management requiring new staff to work full time in the office for the first few months tbh. Completely different situation after 6 months though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    As I see it, if new staff or new recruits have to be in the office full-time for training, that means other staff have to be in full-time to mentor them. I wouldn't want to be that member of staff who has to be the office full-time for that purpose. Nor do I think a year of full-time is necessary for training either, or even six months.

    Quite frankly, I never gotten six months worth of on-the-job training in any role I've ever done in the CS, and I have done many. You'd be lucky if you got a couple of days.

    I can only speak to my own experience, of both being the new member of staff and when I trained up new staff during Covid 100% online. It can be done.

    Two days a week in the office - yes, I'd be onboard with that. Full-time? I don't think its necessary (imo).

    Post edited by Ezeoul on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,077 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Yes, absolutely. But I've never come across a job, except, perhaps, Revenue (and, separately, the CO Programmer induction course, also in Revenue), where you needed to receive serious amounts of training from day 1. I can see it being necessary in certain roles, all right, but the caveats here are a) we managed this fine during Covid, and lockdown; and b) there is (presumably!) a WFH charter/agreement in place in DSP. A year of no WFH just because you're a newbie just seems pointless and hugely counter-productive! We can't recruit/retain EOs because they can't afford to live in Dublin, never mind COs. As it is, I've got EOs commuting from Tipperary and Cork for two days work in Dublin!

    This sounds very much like a solo run by DSP. I'd love to see their blended working policy, and how come Fórsa and AHCPS are silent on it?! I'd also love to see the response if someone formally requests the right to WFH under the new act…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,899 ✭✭✭shmeee


    Mobility staff are told the same as I said above, 12 months with no WFH.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,899 ✭✭✭shmeee


    I can tell you people have turned down mobility to a DSP office 5 minutes from their home in favour of 1 day per week in an office which is a 2 hour commute each way. DSP are going to have issues filling rolls down the line. Not a hope anyone would move on mobility with the DSP WFH arrangements at present.



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