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(Site is a graveyard - How can boards save itself?) Any update?

  • 25-07-2024 10:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,853 ✭✭✭✭


    This thread generated quite a bit of discussion back in March/April. This was the final post.

    It's now over 3 months since that thread was closed. I think that's a reasonable timeframe for some discussions and considered thought to have taken place. Could someone in a position to comment from the inner-workings of Boards please provide an update.

    Personally, I am interested in the following;

    • What internal discussions have taken place with respect to the thread
    • What do the internal group feel was the main points communicated on the thread
      • Issues
      • Solutions
    • What is the internal teams view on the issues identified? Agree/Disagree?
    • What are the internal teams views on the proposed solutions?
    • Aside from what was discussed on thread, what is the Boards thought process in improving the site experience both in terms of quality, and quantity.

    I was concerned as the above thread developed that there seemed to be a 'Lets build another lane to solve the traffic problem' type of mindset about the site as in everything is fine, lets keep doing what we're doing but as a review and discussion was promised, I think its time for an update.

    Post edited by Spear on


«13456770

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭con747


    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,853 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Thanks for the update.

    I hope to get a bit more from them in relation to the original thread because that thread focused on user experience as a consequence of conversations flow and in particular, mod engagement.

    All these points are of a technical focus.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,289 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    There is always ongoing work in the background. There is a thread in the moderator forum asking for feedback from the moderators on points raised in that original thread.

    We are doing a complete overhaul of moderators across the site. Identifying inactive moderators and identifying areas that are short on moderators. As we go through this process we are also identifying areas that aren't particularly active and looking at merging forums that were originally split off when traffic was higher. This is not something that can be done by ticking a tick box, so it will take time and consideration from Boards.ie management in how best to organise the site. It's a slow process and long overdue but it was kick started by the feedback in that thread.

    "Mod bias" along with not enough moderation in some areas have been discussed. This was one of the biggest complaints on the thread. Low level trolls, problem posters and how to deal with them is an ongoing process. Moderators are encouraged to hand out warnings, not just 0 point notes, but warnings that accumulate and can eventually result in a temp siteban for posters who consistently disrupt threads. I think there has been an increase in temp site bans as a result of this. We'll never make the site a utopia where everything is perfect. People are entitled to disagree with each other, with mainstream thinking etc. People can also be angry and aggressive in tone on the internet. So this is something that will never be "fixed". It's an impossible task. But it is one that will be ongoing, and with more active discussion in the background problem posters will eventually be identified and dealt with.

    Some very good points were raised in that thread and all are being looked at.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭con747


    Maybe have more updates like the one you just posted to keep people from wondering if it's all just forgotten about?

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭yagan


    From that thread the suggestion that stood out for me to counter mod bias and the perception thereof was that mods would have a separate profile for modding and a seperate one for contributing like everyone else.

    We'd only every see the mod profile when modding is required.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭drury..


    Who is this internal team ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    From that it seems the only action is moderation of the moderation. Can't say I've noticed any changes. I've no way of seeing an increase of site bans, and I just avoid the forums with the most problems. You reap what you sow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,395 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    IF an individual mod has a bias they'll have that regardless of what username they're using.

    It would also be easy to post a mod warning on thread under their alt account, having to switch between accounts on a thread is a big ask for volunteers. Once a mod does that they're going to be treated differently on thread, you see a lot of "You're a mod, you should know better/You wouldn't get away with that if you weren't a mod" on some threads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,408 ✭✭✭yagan


    That's what already happens.

    I like the suggestion because it allowed volunteer moderators two hats so they can participate like anyone else without being accused of a mod bias.

    I'd imagine it would defang a lot of thread drama. It was a suggestion from another forum that reportedly worked well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,853 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Thanks for responding to this as you.

    It still raises some concerns to be honest. I'll respond in more detail later today or over the weekend so please don't shut down this thread for now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,170 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    The site isn’t going to grow. The message board format is a relic of the 00’s. That’s the reality. It’s aging along with its existing user base.


    Reformed character.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭drury..


    That makes no sense to me anyway

    I don't see any issue with mods posting as themselves

    Having 2 identities seems equivalent to calling the boss by a different name out of hours



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭flyer_query


    my reading between the lines of the mods who replied to that thread was that if they had to mod in secret they wouldn’t do it as their reward for dedicating the hours each day to this forum was the mod badge.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    The problem, is that if a moderator shows a leaning in a particular direction on whatever topic they post their opinion on that is within their responsibility of moderation.. That is used as a stick when they then act as a moderator to some of those of a differing "opinion". Whether real or perceived, the user then is the victim of moderator bias first and not a victim of their posting style.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Modding in secret is ridiculous. Forums need to be seen to be policed and rules enforced.

    If it takes hours there's something wrong with the admin tools. The reporting system has been broken for years. Its the same problems but no one's fixing them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You could argue the reasons all day. End result people are driven out of threads, forums and boards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Thats only partially true. No metrics on it, so can't say for sure. Can only talk about personal experience. I see experienced posters and new posters not staying. I suspect due to their experience both technical and quality of content.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,672 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I did a survey for work a few weeks ago, one of those 'employee wellbeing' things.

    One of the early items for me to strongly/moderately agree/disagree with was 'I believe changes will take place as a result of the data collected in this survey', to which I selected 'Strongly disagree'.

    It is no different here. The same problems have existed in CA since its inception, and existed in AH before that. We've had the same discussions and feedback threads again and again, and nothing has changed. More recently, with the site overhaul, we've seen good posters drifting away, and the problems becoming more condensed.

    Whether through a lack of knowledge on how to remedy things, or a lack of effort, or just a lack of interest/care, it'll continue to slowly circle the drain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,938 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    I haven't seen anything different, to be honest.

    I still see on almost a daily basis anyone with a new account who doesn't align with the handful of posters who own CA get called a rereg and abused.

    It's not really a great way for the site to grow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    In other words, "We're still looking into it".



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  • Administrators Posts: 14,289 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Yes.

    It's a live site, with constant traffic. We are ALWAYS looking in to it. As I said above it's never going to be "fixed" and all problems ticked off and tucked away neatly. It is a constant ongoing process.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,646 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The new accounts on CA that sonehow seem to be intimately familiar with long running threads?

    And in some cases in their first few posts are tagging longstanding users?

    And even openly admitting to being a rereg of a just banned account?

    Credit where credit due to the admins and CA mods for their trojan work blitzing those trolls whether it was on the Russia, Tubridy or US politics threads. Must be a PITA for them but they stay on top of it.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Thats disingenuous, nobody said all problems needed to be solved. They simply asked if "anything" had been done.

    "Looking into it" is what happens before anything is done, they were asking what actually has been done.

    Inactive moderators and merging forums, these things were brought up literally years ago. Its been years but apparently we're still in the "looking into it" stage. Beasty used to talk about the process for appointing new mods that apparently takes years to complete.

    The soccer forum is currently on its 3rd annual feedback thread since the site change, the fact the forum is dead on its arse is yet again being highlighted but for the third year in a row the response can only be summed up as "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas".

    You know who talks about ongoing processes? People who don't have anything to report.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,289 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    It is constantly moving.

    Moderators: I am currently, personally, going through every single forum and subforum in every single category updating the moderator lists, identifying inactive moderators, contacting category moderators who are in turn contacting moderators who are deciding whether they want to remain active, become active again or want to be demodded.

    It is an ongoing process. It always will be. It hasn't been updated in a long time. I am now doing it. But it is a very slow process. There are 100s of listed moderators in 100s of categories.

    The process of appointing new mods does not "apparently take years". But it does take time to identify potential candidates, put them forward for consideration and then offer them the role. Lots of posters decline the role. So we then have to identify other suitable candidates. New moderators are generally picked from prolific posters in a forum, but the posters who post the most won't necessarily be suitable to moderate the forum.

    Reregs: We can't stop people registering. Posters are entitled to close accounts and reregister if they wish. If a poster has been banned and re-registers they are generally caught very quickly. Either by the Admin/moderator teams or by regular posters spotting them.

    I was very active on that last thread, and I have been working in the background addressing the major points raised. Some moderators are happy to just stick to moderating their own forums and don't get involved in much discussion outside that. Some moderates are very interested and active in the moderator forum and have good ideas and suggestions.

    Work is being done. Moderators are being encouraged and supported to take a harder line with troublesome posters. Problem is there will always be more problem posters than there are moderators. So once one is dealt with another 3 or 4 come along, so it's easy to think nothing is being done if you're looking in from the outside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,395 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    I've absolutely no idea where you got that impression from and I was active on the original thread! 🤣🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,646 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    On the subject of reregs, I understand the valid reasons for closing accounts, maybe because personal info was overshared previously, or access has been lost to the account.

    However, I think posters who rereg and return to posting on long running threads, threads they were very active on under their 'old guise', that should be viewed with suspicion, and comes across to me as a bit dishonest.
    I have seen users do it, not necessarily to avoid sanction, but their previous account on the thread was caught out in a porkie, or absurd argument.

    Not sure what the solution is there… perhaps a duty there to notify mods… but I do think it should be approached differently to a re-reg done for sincere reasons.

    And if posters on the thread call attention to this, it should not necessarily be viewed as back seat moderation, because the re-reg was done not to avoid moderation, but for underhand debating purposes.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭Norrie Rugger Head


    Given how few of us there are, the old site could probably handle the traffic again…

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,691 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Argue the reason? If you want to address user numbers then the reasons are important. Alot of users or their accounts at least are driven away because they dont want to be moderated in the first place.

    Take during the abortion referendum. The number of users wailing about being picked on and being silenced because they were anti abortion. Yet afterwards we found out from one of the mods/cmods that in fact they (mods as a whole) had made a decision not to hold users of that persuasion to the usual posting standards as they would have banned so many that there wouldn't have been any/very few dissenting voices left.



  • Administrators Posts: 14,289 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Believe me, if we had the option to mod anonymously under an umbrella "Boards.ie: Moderator" and not have to individually deal with annoyed posters who have been warned, I'd say the majority of mods would jump at the idea!

    Moderating itself doesn't take that much time, delete a post, warn a poster etc, it's all the followup over and back PMs that take time. Boards has always been more of a community where moderators are posters too and accessible to everyone, unlike some boards where posts/threads are just deleted by an anonymous moderator with no option of discussion or dispute resolution.

    If anonymous moderation was to become a thing that would be the format. I can't see too many here being happy with that setup!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,445 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Its all the same thing, consistency the lack of.



This discussion has been closed.
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