General British politics discussion thread

The Tory leadership debates run on Oxford and Eton PolSoc rules. It's about being the more entertaining debater not the most factual.

The issue with school fees is not only are they smashing them with +20% VAT but they are also withdrawing the exemption from corporation tax. It is not possible to hit a sector that hard and not expect bankruptcies.

Was the same said for austerity where councils had their budgets slashed? Maybe the schools can sell off some playing pitches or cut back on the uniforms and school trips.

Not much of a business model if it relies on tax exemptions to survive. Showing yet again that private schools are being subsidised by the tax payer.

On the school fees

Private schools have waiting lists, very long waiting lists.

Average class size is 15 pupils, if schools were to raise their class size by 3 pupils per class the extra revenue would offset the loss of VAT exemption meaning schools wouldn't have to charge parents any extra.

All sorts of gaming the system goes on. According to the Sutton Trust just under half of pupils in London have private tuition on the side.

If some private schools go to the wall so be it. It's good for these private businesses to experience the free market capitalism that is so loved and fought for by the politicians and champions of industry they produce.

I don't quite buy the argument that UK private schools are being funded by the taxpayer. It is more accurate I think, to say that the parents of the majority of private school children are paying tax to support an education system if which they largely don't avail. They are now paying even more. It's a choice, but many will I think opt for the more effective route in every way, of state school and tutors. This will put more pressure on state school places.

Most private schools will have to get less picky about who they accept, and hope to survive.

It's an odd situation, and I can see both sides of it.

Actually they are a significant handicap when applying to university. Anyone who says they aren't is ignorant of the system.

Many of them filter at admission, so only bright kids get in, but state grammar schools do that more ruthlessly again. The good state schools recruit locally, so after a while, the house prices go up significantly in the catchment area, which becomes a middle class ghetto.

There are no easy answers.

If they ban private schools, or make them unaffordable, private tutors will simply flourish.

There is an awful lot of uninformed comment on here, from folk who have no idea of the reality on the ground.

Im unsure what you mean by "threat". If folk can't afford to send their kids to private school, there is no "threat" about being unable to afford it. The kids will take a state school place, and the private schools will become even more a privileged enclave.

Finally, a status symbol? Ah here.

I wonder if you are applying an Irish filter to an English situation.

Not sure who this is directed at or what you are trying to say. I guess being a discussion board it would be nice to be more particular about what you are saying so we can have a discussion about it, being cryptic does not seem to do anything to have a conversation about what we are discussing.

@flatty

Actually they are a significant handicap when applying to university. Anyone who says they aren't is ignorant of the system.

Bit steep to call university WP schemes a handicap since student places are not capped like they used to be.

Historically, this was absolutely the case for Oxbridge. There has been some moves to address this and kids from private/public schools that would have historically got into Oxbridge are not now. The top of crop obviously still are. A lot of the top public schools here at now supporting applications to USA colleges. That said, nearly 100% of the top public schools in the UK will sent kids to Russell group universities. The "where did you go to school question" is very prevalent in certain social circles here.

Some of the smaller independent schools in the UK will definitely feel the pinch with Labour's plans. A lot of the smaller prep schools do not have the financial reserves of the bigger boarding schools.

As others have said, parents will opt for grammar schools, or buy houses in the catchment areas of good state schools. Private tutoring will increase, and this is already common for kids at independent schools. The top public schools (Eton, Harrow etc) will become more exclusive for rich British kids and will also take in more rich international families.

On an aside we were often told that we must have gone to posh schools in Ireland as my wife had played hockey, although when she also mentioned comogie they assumed it was posh because it used sticks as well.

Actually saying the schools we went to were run by catholic orders sounds exclusive to a lot of English people.