Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

Yes, that is totally fair.

We are mostly talking about the core BusConnects routes into the city and orbital routes around the city. Definitely not short city center streets.

Of course some people will use the BC routes to cycle short distance, but the majority will be cycling long distance commuting into town. Swords to City Center or Howth to City Center.

This CC2C route is just a part of a much longer Howth to City route which is mostly two way on the old parts and will be extended further North in future. Even new sections on Alfie Byrne Road and East Wall are being built two way, so I don't understand why they suddenly swapped to one way for this new CC2C section! It is going to cause problems people switching between the two way section and the one way section, it is just bad design.

I'm not fundamentally against one way routes, for instance the Malahide Road BC route, other then the stupid detour between Griffith Avenue and Clontarf Road, it is mostly fine, at 2m wide the entire route.

But then I look at the Swords Road BC route, just 1.5m wide on Lower Drumcondra Road, what is likely to be one of the busiest routes in the city is just mad IMO!

Looking at the BusConnects plans, it is very clear to me what is happening. They are bolting on cycle lanes in the cheapest and easiest way possible that minimises any impact to the existing road layout!

It is basically just the slightest evolution on the old painting a line on the road.

Where their is plenty of extra road space, they give you 2m, but where that gets harder, like Lower Drummcondra Road, then squeeze it down to just 1.5m. Or worse send you off on a stupid detour like on Brian Road.

Like much of the 2m section are on the outskirts of the city, which would be the quieter part of the city, while closer to the city just 1.5m, despite that section being MUCH busier. It doesn't make sense from a design perspective, other then not wanting to take space from onstreet parking, etc.

I'd really suggest reading the article about the London cycle lanes I posted a few posts up. Basically in London they did the same back in 2010, just bolting on narrow cycle lanes, they are now digging all these up and building high quality two way lanes instead, because demand is so high.

I fear we will spend the next 10 years building BC routes that aren't much better then painted lines and we will open them, realise they are massively over capacity and be back digging them up and doing them properly the next time around.

I feel the theory doesn't match reality of what is happening on the ground.

For me the rule of thumb is simple, one way cycle lanes need to be a minimum of 2m, if you can't fit that, then a 3m to 3.5m two way lane is better.

Unfortunately most of the BusConnects Dublin routes have already gone to ABP and some even been given planning permission. So I don't think there will be any changes now.

Also they were already basically ignoring the guidelines in the National Cycling Design Manual, so I don't think they were suddenly going to change that just because the public pointed it out. Which cycling groups absolutely did.

In fairness to the engineers, they are likely working within the constraints handed them by their managers. If management tells them they can't remove onstreet parking or right turn lanes or central medians, then they can only work with the space available.

I walked Alfie Byrne Road last night, after most of the buses were gone (some still parked on and blocking the footpath on the other side of the road!) and the new bike lane was absolutely covered in broken glass bottles, rubbish and cans!