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The 2024 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Not at all, it's totally coherent. FTR, I said speedier turnovers i.e., we don't have 3-4 minutes of handpassing before the ball is lost. Granted, that does probably mean that there will be more overall. Don't agree that high fielding will result in less kickpassing and shooting from distance- I don't see any link there. Handpassing to runners should still be allowed of course- we just want to less handpassing overall.

    It's obvious the current set of rules lend itself to this style of football- so it's the rules that will have to be changed not individual teams. When the likes of Dublin, set up in their negative way with 15 men behind the ball, there is nothing illegal about that. We just need structure the game in such a way that this strategy is less advantageous.

    I'm saying people want more scoring from distance, I'm giving my opinion. People don't like watching weightlifters handpass it to each other endlessly and then try and tap/handpass it over from 10-25 metres- that's why we're seeing all of this complaining. Again, close in scores should still be allowed, it's just it'd be better if there was less of it than there is currently.

    Post edited by gaffer91 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    McGeeney said yesterday it’s the people who know little that make a lot of noise.


    Who is it that’s demanding these changes? The players? They’re the amateurs putting the time in, I’d love to hear their collective opinion.


    The jubilee team yesterday was Meath containing legends like Tommy Dowd, Trevor Giles and Ollie Murphy. What a final that was too, Murphy scored a good goal in the first half and then Joe Kavanagh scored one of the greatest we’ve seen in the second. But in reality was it a great final? It finished 1-11 to 1-08, outscored by Armagh v Galway yesterday.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭drury..


    He did and he said it on the rte podcast too

    In reality his is just ANother opinion , same as the players is another view, and if he means that sincerely(hard to tell ) I believe he's mistaken

    Not sure whos "demanding" , changes if anyone

    The state of the game and possible rule changes are being discussed here anyhow



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,065 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I said the same yesterday after I came home from the match. Two very limited teams. Neither carried out their game plans whatever they were and 1-9 was a very low score to win a Final with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,065 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    You could say the same about the Armagh misses to seal the win. Some very poor wides and hitting the post when it was easier to score. Overall a poor match as as I said last night I don't expect to see either team in the semi-finals next year.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,065 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    The way the game has gone and with so little ball being kicked into the full forward line and so little space in there you find that wing backs and corners backs are nearly as likely to pop up with the same number of scores as a corner forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I happen to think most of the calls for rule change/or that the game is in an awful state is coming from fickle support, i.e. They'll never be happy. There are other things to consider.
    You don't agree, fine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭MfMan


    To be replaced by who? Both teams were there on merit, Galway especially, considering the route they took. Neither played their best football yesterday but both are comfortably in the top 6-7 teams currently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,065 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I've seen Galway and Armagh several times and have not been overly impressed. I'd be surprised if either win their Provincial titles next year.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭drury..




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,464 ✭✭✭MfMan


    There was no genuinely consistent side all year, save perhaps Donegal who showed greatest improvement. Can't speak for Armagh, but Galway are 3-in-a-row winners in Connacht and should be better again next year with hopefully a fitter and larger squad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    God, I definitely think Armagh are deserved Champions just looking at Championship form alone. They were very solid all season. Probably their best trait has been their ability to just take their chances when they presented themselves. If only Galway could say they did that yesterday…



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭rrs


    Galway will be back again and Armagh will be thereabouts. A fit Sean Kelly would make a difference and John Daly. They have had underage success while Armagh haven't. Armagh have 3 or 4 players who are near the end of their career. Galway only have Conroy, who would be a big loss if he goes



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 howdo1992


    Comer and Walsh getting on in years to. Both will stay on but would have to say they are past their prime now



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    The issue with the game is not the level of scoring.

    The issue is the lack of contest for possession.This has largely disappeared from the game because we have teams who just retreat and put 15 men in defence and we have very little kick passing.

    We need to increase the contest for possession and the number of them in the game this is what most people like in my opinion.

    When I played football if you played corner forward the number 1 thing you had to do was be out in front of your man and be ready at all times either for a long pass into the corner or a break off the full forward however the ball is very rarely kicked into the full forward line long anymore because of blanket defences.

    You don't get as much contest for possession in midfield either because 75% of kickouts go short to a cornerback.

    I'd make the following rule changes.

    1. Blanket defence tactic is banned, at all times each team must have at least 5 players inside the 65 metre line of the goal they are attacking

    2. All kickouts must cross the 45 metre line .Player can claim a mark for a clean catch from a kick out .

    3. 3 consecutive handpasses and then the ball must be kicked forward.(getting rid of the blanket defence will mean it will actually be worthwhile kicking the ball forward).

    Do this and you'd bring back more catch and kick into the game which is what fans want (and I'd imagine the players would prefer it as well), if I want to see players hand passing the ball around in the circle in order to get a perfect position for a shot (like we see constantly) I'll watch Olympic handball.

    Basketball had to introduce the shot clock because teams used to pass the ball around in a circle endless as a way of keeping possession (and stifling the oppositions) and hold back shooting until they were in a perfect posession, that is what Galway were doing for a lot of the game yesterday and it's awful to watch.

    People seem to think that the game would work it's way through this defensive phase it's stuck in and it's around 15 years of it now and it hasn't it's got worse over time, people need to face it that the rules don't encourage teams to play more exciting football and we need to legislate the type of football we see far too often out of the game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭ledwithhedwith




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭drury..


    Agree and its simple rule changes that can make a difference

    Talk about fickle fans or what mcgeeney said isn't the point

    It's about improving the game as a "show"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    I have no doubt Galway did something similar when not in possession. Galway had 60% possession in the first half and could muster only 6 points. Armagh would see that as a successful result.

    Both sides took the Donegal 2011 attitude - keep opposing scores to a minimum, and hope to nick a point here or there. The plan of both teams was keep the score down and hope to win by a point at the end after using up the clock before taking the final shot. Low risk strategy. And I'd have said the same if Galway won. Games between these two teams have been mostly tight in recent years.

    Yesterday I thought Galway should go back to their traditional football, but Joyce would argue they got nowhere with that, and would lose even more, although I disagree. The high ball into the forwards is still a worthwhile tactic and can cause mayhem. Sometimes you just have to mix it up and have a plan a, b and c.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    So please put forward your suggestions for improving the game.

    And please don't try and pretend it doesn't need to be improved because it does.

    One of the noticeable things that has grown over the past decade at matches has been the audible hum of people chatting or even near silence during matches (like you get at baseball and cricket) as opposed to people being fully invested in the game.

    Do you think teams endlessly hand passing the ball around in a circle is what fans want from the game (because it's a major feature of the game in the last few years)



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,815 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I was in the Upper Cussack. Anytime Armagh lost the ball the 15 Armagh players retreated and were all behind there own 45.

    Galway always tried to keep 2 player inside the opposition 45 and a third between the 45 and 65 for 90% of the game. When they had the ball they had nearly every player inside the Armagh half of the pitch.

    This Is where the myth that Armagh counter attacked faster. They could because the Galway defence had to scramble back to defend and Armagh got scores easier.

    If Galway had adopted the same tactics the game would have been similar to the Kerry Derry game. Galway could just not get 4 points ahead to force Armagh out of the defensive shell.

    However Galway had there chances and should have taken them. But the lesson that teams will take from this is put every player behind the ball and try to score on the counterattack

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,252 ✭✭✭✭km79


    Thinking back on yesterdays game
    It was very clean. Both teams very disciplined.
    I think there may have been one yellow late on and that was it ?
    No blacks. No cynical fouls (even from Armagh at the end when they should have 🫣)


    That is a credit to both sets of players



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭ledwithhedwith


    it doesn’t need to be improved. Go watch hurling where they score all the time from inside their own half.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    The forward mark was meant to encourage a bit of traditional catch and kick. Whilst its done the first part, it doesn't help that the average modern footballer is very mediocre at kicking points. And taking marks 40 yards out is utterly pointless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    But if it's basically impossible to clean catch the ball because of blanket defence because their is no space to run into to catch the ball then it's difficult for the forward mark to have much impact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,670 ✭✭✭elefant


    100% accurate. Galway did try and leave multiple players forward to be more attacking, but there were so few turnovers in the game that all attacks came off dead balls, and Armagh funnelled everyone back at each break in play. The strategy worked to a tee.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    They are different games. Scoring with a sliotar is immeasurably easier than scoring with a football from far out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭ledwithhedwith


    yeah it’s getting ridiculous, is it the fact they are all so beefed up?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭Straight Talker


    @BonnieSituation Seeing that you've brought up puke football i don't mean to sound like Pat Spillane here, but it was Tyrone in the 00's that brought negative and defensive play into Gaelic football.

    Donegal in 2012 took negative and defensive play to whole new extremes though. It cost them in 2014 though. With a more positive approach they would have beaten Kerry in that final.

    What i decide to watch is none of your business to be quite frank about it. I'm entitled to my opinion that gaelic football has gone downhill as a spectacle over the past decade and a bit.

    Cork 1990 All Ireland Senior Hurling and Football Champions



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,577 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Either lads here are too young to remember, or are wilfully ignoring it, but defensive, negative football wasn't invented in 2003.

    I grew up through the 1980s, and believe me there were some shocking games and tactics. Pulling and dragging, and even wilful violence used as a way to control skillful players - big lumps of lads they whose main skill was boxing a lad on the back of the head, and lumping a punt kick up into the air as far as they could. You could only imagine a player scoring a point like O'Neill scored yesterday,full pace going into the corner, and it's quite commonplace now,I think it was D'Arcy did something similar for Galway too, and don't mention Conroy and his shooting from range. The fact that corner backs and even goalies are better ball players then most half forwards in the 1980s means you can't kick the ball to them willingly, and it impacts on how teams play with the ball in hand.

    "The thing about the old days, they the old days'!



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