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In the event of united Ireland could DUP attract a significant vote in the Republic / 26 Counties ?

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  • #272
    realdanbreen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,211 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058333987/in-the-event-of-united-ireland-could-dup-attract-a-significant-vote-in-the-republic-26-counties

    Yeah the dup would be big into " traditional values,families" etc. What's this the name of their previous leader was, oh yeah, Sir Jeffrey Donaldson!



  • #273
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439488#Comment_122439488

    I guess we can't properly discuss the conjecture in the OP if the thread is going to be bogged down by those in denial of the obvious.

    You mean this OP?

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058333987/in-the-event-of-united-ireland-could-dup-attract-a-significant-vote-in-the-republic-26-counties

    Not sure why you insist upon name-checking such an egregious case of pretty extreme social illiberalism as a launchpad for comparison with FG's own; 'cos yet again, it doesn't match the reality of the party's succesful double-job unsetting that conservatism. It's one thing to speculate about "unionist sympathising" quite another to jump into outright social conservatism.

    And maybe there's more to be said about the DUP end of the spectrum rather than whether or how they fit into pre-existing Irish parties. As I said, there's a not unreasonable chance the DUP will have disintegrated into nothing by the time a UI came to pass - the shrinking hardcore Unionist voice taken up by the TUV as the DUP drifted into either the centre or irrelevance. Clearly for a UI to happen in the first place Unionism will have to change its outlook - to that end, the DUP may become a dinosaur.

    Though sidebar? That opening post has really Aged Like Milk in light of everything that has come to light about its then leader.



  • #274
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439535#Comment_122439535

    I have already agreed that the DUP might disappear become dinosaurs, but they might also regroup/regain support in the run-up to a UI referendum.

    The thread title asks 'In the event of united Ireland could DUP attract a significant vote in the Republic / 26 Counties ?'
    It's speculative and that is all it is and what we are doing. If you don't want to do that, fair enough.

    Also, I haven't commented on the allegations against the former leader as that is not right, and I think it's wrong to generalise about the party and it's support on that basis. There are undoubtedly many in the DUP and it's support who genuinely believe in the values of the party whether I agree with them or not. After all I voted for FF and FG knowing they had deeply conservative wings. I voted for SF knowing they too have a conservative wing.
    Would SF and FF voters vote for the DUP in future? No, I don't think so for the reasons stated earlier.



  • #275
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,186 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122437683#Comment_122437683

    Whereas you're saying that people like Garret Fitzgerald supposedly had an "affinity with unionism" based on absolutely nothing at all.

    This is getting tiresome in the extreme.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • #276
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440725#Comment_122440725

    His 'Constitutional Crusade' was designed for them (unionists) principally and at the time he was heavily criticised for that and failing utterly to speak out on behalf of nationalists. He zealously rushed through ill thought out divorce legislation without taking even his own party with him never mind the electorate and it predictably failed.

    Like how inviting Donaldson to congress backfired on Varadkar and Coveney (not too long after they were being vilified by the DUP) so too did Garrett's approach's as Unionists came to hate and vilify him him for negotiating the Anglo Irish Agreement etc. Something he believed helped Unionists, you don't believe you are helping people or try to (however misguided) without having an affinity with them



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  • #277
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,186 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440948#Comment_122440948

    His 'Constitutional Crusade' was designed for them (unionists) principally

    Laughable nonsense.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • #278
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122441420#Comment_122441420

    I think you need to do some research. Start with his Dimbelby lectures where he mapped out his 'crusade' to change Irish law and the constitution and what it's intentions were.

    It's a fact that they were designed to make the south more palatable for Unionists.



  • #279
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    I don't think going forward towards a UI,narratives villifying being accomadating towards unionism should be espoused,more especially because increasingly it's more and more what we are going to have to be looking at



  • #280
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122442791#Comment_122442791

    Who was villifying?
    Question was posed in the OP and when facts were alluded to the defensiveness started. Even had somebody make assumptions based on religion, not very accommodating is it?

    Any future relationships should be based on mutual respect not because we ‘have’ to. Respect is earned.



  • #281
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122442871#Comment_122442871

    overtures/niceties extended to unionists historically or now should not be dissed,its on doing so,you enter the territory of disrespect imho

    For the record (again) I didn't make assumptions earlier on religion,I gave anecdote that countered yours and I know my understanding to be true

    You seem to think my description of protestant affinity down south with their brethern up north is casting aspersions when I clearly stated the opposite

    (i'm frankly quite surprised your experience closer to the border is different tbh but there may be a different dynamic in play)

    As we don't know each other I'll put earlier differences down to yet another internet misunderstanding and leave it at that

    Readers can make of it what they will



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  • #282
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443224#Comment_122443224

    For the record (again) I didn't make assumptions earlier on religion,I gave anecdote that countered yours and I know my understanding to be true

    Erskine childers was a protestant and so was Hyde before him both FF figures


    Nobody was talking about 'protestants'. Own it and move on.






  • #283
    I see sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    How has this obvious attempt at a wind up got 10 pages?



  • #284
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443491#Comment_122443491

    You seem to be interested in the tat titting

    Not my thing baby



  • #285
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443554#Comment_122443554

    You are trying to undermine what I say by stereotyping religions and by insinuation:

    (i'm frankly quite surprised your experience closer to the border is different tbh but there may be a different dynamic in play)

    Classic tit for tatting.
    For the record, my experience close to the border sees some Protestants with an affinity to Unionism but not all of them. I don't, like you, make assumptions. Insinuating that there is a different dynamic at play is pathetic.
    Again for the record, I don't have issue with people having Unionist sympathies (I know and deal with such people everday) but I do have a different political outlook.



  • #286
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122443588#Comment_122443588

    Unnecessary argument finding much

    Of course theres a different dynamic somewhere at play when my experience of a community 100's of miles from the border is markedly differs from yours

    And no I didn't tat your tit by outlining my own experience

    I posted

    Neither of us are the only people in the world,each of us expressed our own experience and extrapulated our own take



  • #287
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444450#Comment_122444450

    There is no different dynamic other than the truth versus stereotype.
    I contest your 'experience' - not all protestants are aligned/sympathetic to unionism and never were here or in any other part of the country. You assessment is lazy.



  • #288
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444503#Comment_122444503

    So you have a monopoly on the truth and experience

    I see



  • #289
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445168#Comment_122445168

    No monopoly, I know that Protestant does not automatically equal unionist and never did here.

    Apparently it does where you live and in your version of history.



  • #290
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445247#Comment_122445247

    We'll just have to agree to disagree



  • #291
    StormForce13
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭StormForce13


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122445937#Comment_122445937

    Aww don't be a spoilsport. He hates when people prevent him from adding yet another notch to his bedpost.



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  • #292
    Bredabe
    Registered Users Posts: 4,144 ✭✭✭Bredabe


    Yes, plenty of ppl who don't know they are not British people transplanted in a different country. These will be as devoted to dup etc as much as the fg'ers are in the more southern-minded ppl.

    "Have you ever wagged your tail so hard you fell over"?-Brod Higgins.



  • #293
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Whatever about the future which none of us can be sure of it is absolutely gas to witness the denial of the past.



  • #294
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    considering how a load of Dubs went up to belfast to hang around with a gang of tri-colour burning loyalists and then burn out shops, it wouldnt surprise me in the DUP done well in the south



  • #295
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122474842#Comment_122474842

    Works both ways mac, if the kids can forget and vote for SF they can forget and vote for the DUP just as easy.
    How many applauding Jeffrey Robinson 'forgot', willfully or otherwise, the DUP's involvement in paramilitarism for instance.



  • #296
    Madeleine Birchfield
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Madeleine Birchfield


    The DUP can quite easily win a lot of people in the south if they pivot from Ulster unionist sectarian concerns to being anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim.



  • #297
    moon2
    Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭moon2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475874#Comment_122475874

    Is that another way of agreeing that the DUP won't gain support if they continue as they are today? You believe they'd have to be a different party, with different goals and different priorities?

    For the anti immigrant point - that's still demonstrably false. No anti immigrant party has done well to date, and long may that continue.



  • #298
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122475501#Comment_122475501

    its almost quaint. We really should laugh because it actually is quite funny the idea of a load of Dubs running up to Belfast to hang out with a bunch of rioting loyalists who really couldnt give a hoots about coolock or the republic of ireland



  • #299
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122486035#Comment_122486035

    FG: We will never and should never forget what IRA/SF did.

    Also FG: Howya Jeffrey, wanna address our convention, nobody will question you on the past of your party and what your party did nor about the extremes you are still connected to, who knows we might even give you an ovation?




  • #300
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    I think the question is upside down

    Do you know in the event of an inevitable UI,it's the DUP that will discipate as the 26 county parties permeate the 6 counties not the other way round,normal left ,right and centre politics establishishing up there



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  • #301
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,249 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122487091#Comment_122487091

    The southern parties have realistically failed in any attempts to enter politics in NI, and most of them *have* tried. PBP have one assembly seat. Labour had one MP in the 60s.

    FF tried to Borg the SDLP quite recently and while the leadership was OK with it, the members absolutely weren't



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