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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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    #10352
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,720 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122430154#Comment_122430154

    This is probably another one of those "let's break it up into smaller projects because why do everything at once when we can multiple the planning delays across many projects so that nothing really gets delivered any time soon"



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    #10353
    The Mathematician
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭The Mathematician


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439147#Comment_122439147

    Does this mean that the Belfast trains won't stop at Dundalk anymore?



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    #10354
    loco_scolo
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    OH MY GOD - has it been approved?

    Today is the 2 year anniversary of submission and it's been updated today saying signature on July 18th ..........

    https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/314232



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    #10355
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    It would seem so! And that matches what the minister said recently, who said a decision was due within days.

    If true, it’s typical of ABP’s Kafkaesque internal workings that the case decision is only made known 11 days after the fact.



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    #10356
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439147#Comment_122439147

    No they will not. This post is utter twaddle.

    As I already posted, Dundalk will be served by the hourly Enterprise service to/from Dublin and Belfast, and by additional peak hour diesel services to/from Dublin.



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    #10357
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,568 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439517#Comment_122439517

    But no letter with confirmation and conditions up yet



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    #10358
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,968 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439622#Comment_122439622

    /s means sarcasm - I assume it's a dig at the plans for the Wexford line.



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    #10359
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439691#Comment_122439691

    Fair enough but that wasn’t obvious, particularly given that poster’s almost constant negative outlook on life!



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    #10360
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,841 ✭✭✭SeanW


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122439147#Comment_122439147

    Jaysus, don't go giving Irish Rail new ideas 😔



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    #10361
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,258 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    Is the docklands line excluded from DART+ West?



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    #10362
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122440859#Comment_122440859

    No. It’s included as part of it.



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    #10363
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,932 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The text beside the 18th July date has changed to "make railway order with cons", but said con[dition]s letter isn't there yet still.



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    #10364
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,568 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Documents up now. Looks like the depot has been binned so back to the drawing board for pretty much the whole project



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    #10365
    VonLuck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444088#Comment_122444088

    That can't be right, can it? Can the depot location not be just relocated and the rest of the railway order progressed in the meantime?

    Also how it got to this point is beyond me. Sounds like someone didn't undertake a proper flood risk assessment.



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    #10366
    scrabtom
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭scrabtom


    Sounds like an absolute disaster.

    Does that mean they won't be able to take any of the new Dart carriages beyond what is needed to replace the current fleet?

    I hope they knew this was coming so they at least have an alternative already in the works.



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    #10367
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,568 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444126#Comment_122444126

    YeYes They can progress with the rest of the line but they won't be able to operate a service without a depot



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    #10368
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Seems like they got dinged for insufficient flood prevention around the depot.

    The report says they will submit a future Railway Order for a redesigned depot plan.

    I'd assume they were already aware of these issues, and planning work on a revised depot is already well underway and will now be submitted to a RO soon.



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    #10369
    VonLuck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭VonLuck


    Let's hope that it's not another full two years for that Railway Order!

    I wonder if they will tender out the approved works to contractors now or wait for the depot to be approved when resubmitted? That would really be a major delay if it's the latter.



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    #10370
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Is there no option at all for them to determine the appropriate mitigations at the site, and bring it back to ABP for reconsideration?

    Alternatively, might they have known this was coming and they now intend to tie in a reapplication for the depot with the Kilcock station application?

    This effectively scuppers the majority of the Dart+ scheme as a whole right ? This depot is required for the new trains on all the new Dart services?



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    #10371
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,888 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Heads must roll.



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    #10372
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Wow, the inspectors report is pretty scathing of the chosen depot location!

    It seems that it was to be built on a major flood plain! The application did put forward mitigations, but the Inspector felt that they weren't sufficient enough. Also the inspector seemed to be concerned that if flooding did happen, it would cause services from the depot to be disrupted!

    It seems IR considered multiple other depot locations at both Maynooth and on the other lines, this location doesn't seem to be their only option.

    I'm curious if IR told ABP to drop the depot from the RO knowing the issues or has ABP done it themselves? I kind of guess it is the former and that IR will now submit other plans for a new depot location.



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    #10373
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,568 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444224#Comment_122444224

    Nope This is news to them, it's a back to drawing board thing and another railway order, presumably another 2 or 3 years on the schedule.



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    #10374
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,568 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444265#Comment_122444265

    The DART Coastal scheme may survive but the rest of it cannot function without a depot



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    #10375
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,568 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Best course of action at this stage is to proceed with the rest of the works and start a new depot project. The result will be a shiney new Dart line with no service operating for a time while the depot is sorted but what else can be done



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    #10376
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122444409#Comment_122444409

    Have you evidence for this?

    I've seen video where Irish Rail staff talk about the new train order and I distinctly remember them being extremely cautious about the depot getting permission. Even then I had a feeling they knew something was up.

    To be honest I'm surprised ABP just cutting out a key part of the RO, without first running it by IR.



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    #10377
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Irish Rail say they are happy it is approved:

    "Iarnród Éireann said it "warmly welcomes" the decision by An Bord Pleanála.

    It said the order is a "crucial milestone" for the plan which the company
    says will double the capacity of the Greater Dublin Area rail network."

    https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2024/0730/1462601-dart-west-approval/



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    #10378
    Bodan
    Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭Bodan


    It sounds like the depot is now a stand alone project, while the rest of the dart west can go ahead.



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    #10379
    crushproof
    Registered Users Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭crushproof


    Utterly bizarre logic surrounding the total refusal depot location, it's only the very far eastern side of the depot that has flood potential and it looks like they included flood storage areas around this part of the development.

    This will hold the DART+ project back years, absolutely ridiculous.



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    #10380
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,439 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Is anyone familiar with the depot location. Is it actually an area prone to flooding and if so, how serious is it.

    There are multiple engineering solutions to flood prevention, how can countries like The Netherlands have a proper train infrastructure yet we fail at simple hurdles. Metrolink is also being held up by silly technicalities.



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    #10381
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,776 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, strictly speaking you can certainly go ahead with most of the project.

    You'd still gain the benefit of electrification, new Spencer Dock Station, level crossing closures, etc.

    What you'd miss out on is the extra frequency and thus capacity of more trains. They would need to build a new depot to unlock those benefits.



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