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The 2024 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Well if they do not they are idiots. You cannot but be caught up in the celebrations. The cup will travel the county this week and early next week. Then the players return to there club championship. Those that exit that late September will be caught up doing events, whether it's presenting underanged medals, doing promotions etc.

    They will be right to enjoy it. AI are hard won and you need a bit of luck.

    On winning back to back you need significant luck and a very experienced panel. The last time a team won back to back AI straight after winning a first were Cork and Meath of the late 1980's. But bother if these were seriously experienced teams with little opposition in there own provinve at that stage and both had lost AI finals previous to winning them.

    I am not saying Armagh cannot do back to back AI's but they would need serious luck. To get to that level of fitness again with the hunger is a serious ask and you need a bit of luck as well.

    If you win one after a gap you celebrate because you are an idiot if you do not

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭cosatron


    One thing I will say about armagh, they are one of the fittest and leanest teams I've ever seen and they have raised the bar in that department. All the players that took the field were 100% fit and that's testament to mcgeeney. Whereas we had question marks hanging over Walsh, comer, finnerty and Kelly. I think Joyce would've have learn allot from Sunday in terms off playing half injured players will only get you so far and your luck will run out and it did.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yeh, I think even if Galway had levelled it, they were doomed in extra time. Messed up their chance to win it in match time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Even though Galway had injuries they finished the game stronger than Armagh. IMO they had run Armagh into the ground. What stood for Arnagh were they were clinical tgey took there scores from tge few chances they had late in the game.

    Liam Silke pass a ball to Walsh tgat he shoukd have put over the bar to even the game after the goal. The chance went and Armagh went straight down and scored. They did similar with a goal chance later in the game they took there point.

    I think after the goal Galway wasted about 6-8 chances. Armagh nearly scored all of there chances. Being clinical will usually win games

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You miss chances when you tire and are not fully fit. I don't think Galway finished stronger in that respect. Extra time would have seen Armagh's superior fitness allow them push on I think. Galway were tired and laborious and overworking the ball towards the end.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    You told us that there were a number of teams better than Armagh this season, and that did not quite work out.

    I think it is very hard to win two in a row, teams now see you coming and your hunger is a fraction less. Armagh in 2002 encouraged/outraged Tyrone, and their win in 2024 will encourage Donegal and Derry. Add that to Galway, Mayo, Kerry and Dublin and it is a period of unusual unpredictability. If a team meets one of these others in a quarter final, then they need to be good for 3 games.

    However, while there is no doubt that any winning team needs a few breaks, it is a false narrative that everything went well for Armagh in a unique combination. In the final they did not play especially well, several of their players are capable of better than they played that day. While Galway did not score from frees, Armagh did not either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    I'm delighted for Armagh from a sporting perspective but also with respect to the personal tragedies their players suffered. Also the tragedies of the past.

    But I don't think they're a great team who'll dominate the next few years. They ride their luck too much. I know you make your own luck but Kerry should've beaten them by a few points and I think Kerry would've beaten Galway also.

    Sport is unpredictable though so I guess that's why we love it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,814 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    All I can give you is my opinion a d it was the opinion of a couple more neutrals that were at the game Sunday that I was talking to in Dublin.

    Armaghwere trying to conserve energy for the last 20 minutes. They used a couple long balls over the top to try to free runners after turnovers when they got no joy from.that theyused there running game to get a few scores. However thry never over committed going forward. They played it extremely cute but that is the way you win games.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    And Galway were ponderous, over elaborate, turgid and missing uncharacteristically in contrast. All the hallmarks of a tiring team.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Donegal missed a couple of handy ones late on against Galway, much poorer shooting than in the Ulster final. Part of the reason is of course the work rate of the Galway defence, who got a goal and defended their lead. So a semi final where a team failed to get to extra time is a measure of Galway success, whereas somehow the same thing happening in the final is Armagh luck.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭Treble double


    Wasn't at the game but talking to a neutral who was and he said the atmosphere was unreal. Watching on TV, I found it a gripping and engaging contest and the ending was nail-biting. You can't ask for much more from a final. I think some punters don't realise how tight the margins are on the field of play and how much pressure shooters are put under in the scoring zone and the amount of analysis that is gone into reading attacking patterns of the opposition, it has to be claustrophobic out on that pitch. I think some people need to realise this and stop knocking the game and rambling on about a mythical game that only ever existed in their head. All Ireland Gold should have put paid to all those notions



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    We live close to Croke Park and I'd say its the best atmosphere we've seen for a game, before and after.

    Also your point on kicking is well made - kicking under pressure is very very difficult, I think its much harder than people think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 645 ✭✭✭The Moist Buddha


    Donegal went 2 points up after the Galway goal



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,065 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The good weather helped the atmosphere and you could see all the colour as nobody was wearing coats. Good music before the match too and it got everyone singing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Close games can often be exciting, particularly if you're in a packed stadium. I also agree there is a greater appreciation for skills levels, level of pressure etc when you're up near the players in the stadium.

    But let's not overstate things either. Viewers definitely can ask for more from a final. The more engaging styles of play are not mythical, they existed 10, 20 years ago etc. Nobody wants to bring it back to just hoofing the ball like in the 1970s. But there was a lot of positive evolution of the game between the 1970s and in recent years when Dublin introduced and perfected, and others copied, this dour, boring, negative style with packed defences, no high-fielding, high percentage shots only. A few tweaks of the rules could bring big benefits, like when they banned backpasses in soccer. Armagh winning is a good thing as they are probably one of the more attacking teams nowadays, and just generally deserved it this year anyway, but there is definitely room for improvement for the game as a whole.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,527 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    I must have watched a different game to you. Armagh had 15 behind the ball for long periods of the game. I wouldn't call that an attacking team. Dublin in contrast don't generally do that. So I'd take the Dublin approach any day.

    Unfortunately coaches across the country will take a look at the Kerry or Dublin approach or the Armagh approach and decide to follow Armagh's one.

    15 players behind the ball will become a common tactic if this continues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Robson99


    Armagh stopped Galway counter attacking at least 3 times with cynical fouls and got away with it….needed to be done and they did it…. Galway should have done the same for the goal



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    Armagh were defensive in the final, for sure, but so were Galway. Armagh at least attacked at pace with a good running game, rather than endlessly recycling around the 45 as Galway did- "negative" play isn't just about the defensive side of things. Also Armagh played more attacking football than Kerry in the semi-final for the same reasons, plus showed some outstanding high-fielding from kickouts, occasionally left men forward and so on. Whereas Dublin not only stick 15 men behind the ball, never go for high-fielding, handpass endlessly around the 45, only take high percentage shots etc- they were also the ones who introduced this dour style of play to inter-county football! Nothing illegal about it, it's all well within the rules so we can't blame them for anything. And tbf everyone else has copied them to greater or lesser extents. But I'm just stating the facts. And let's not pretend that it's attractive football.

    Another example would be comparing Armagh's performance vs Kerry with Derry's- both set up very defensively (although Kerry were more defensive than Armagh), but because of Armagh's solid attacking game, they could threaten Kerry in a way Derry couldn't dream of. So I'd say again there that Armagh are playing more attractive football than Derry, even if it is still relatively defensive.

    I would say 15 men behind the ball is already a common tactic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    The term high percentage shots is often used in derisory way, or you hear people shouting at games to kick it in. But if your shot has a lower percentage than the probability of the opposition scoring from the kickout then you lose the game and you do not play in the final. So whatever the final viewers might expect from you they will not see it because you won't be there. The only way that you can give yourself scope for a shot is by reducing the probability of the other team scoring, and packing your defence does that.

    If the rules are tweaked then Armagh and Galway will probably welcome that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    By flash in the pan I mean that Armagh will do well to win another all ireland this decade. By everything going right for Armagh this year that they won I mean the results that they got. Basically the tactics seem to be try and nullify the game for 60 minutes, and then hope to catch the opposition out in the last 5/10 minutes.

    I think Armagh's win in general could actually set the game of Gaelic Football backwards as other teams try and copy them. Because that is what normally happens.

    I can't see Armagh's way of playing consistently winning all ireland's or drawing the neutrals into the game. It's the GAA equivalent of Cliff Thorburn snooker from the 1980's. A lot of it is slow paced, backwards and sideways, backwards and sideways, backwards and sideways etc. Armagh rarely break with speed consistently in most of their games, like the way Donegal do for example.

    The Armagh template is more based on stopping football rather creating chances. Instead hoping the opponent makes an error. That is normally left ot the last 5/10 minutes of games in which Armagh are involved in.

    Most of the time from watching them they leave it too late to win games, but they still stick to the format - for example the league final div2 v Donegal. Backwards and sideways, backwards and sideways when they were well behind.

    But in the championship this year it worked. Thanks to two goalkeeper errors Galway (Group match) and Kerry (SF), plus Roscommon getting a man sent off early in the QF after around 30 minutes. Yet Armagh still only won by 2. What does that say?

    I'll call a spade a spade, if Dublin (for instance) were playing Donegal I would have been more worried. But if Dublin played Armagh. Dublin would have found it easy. Because Armagh are a very predictable one dimensional side. Dublin would just pick off the scores early on, while Armagh would sit back going slow-slow-backwards, sideways.

    Armagh won their all-ireland fair dues etc, but people talking as if it is going to be an Armagh era, is hyperbole caught up in the emotion. Because Armagh don't have the personnel to vary their play or style. People need to step back and look at big picture. Armagh won the all-ireland because other teams let Armagh into games, by making errors. It was not Armagh domination. It was other teams fluffing it.

    Plus I don't really think Armagh have any "star" players. If I compare Armagh to Derry for example, Derry have the two best midfielders in the country by far. Armagh to me just seem like a bunch of lads who stick to framework, and hope for the best. They don't know any other way.

    Tyrone have got lads like young Canavan with spark fellas that can play off the cuff. Armagh don't to me, they are constrained by the style of play, that is forced upon them.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,454 ✭✭✭dunnerc


    Amazingly this poster slates Dublin again , has been doing this for 14 years , mentions Dublin playing defensive negative football , but conveniently forgets his own County started it in the 2014 All Ireland final, playing defensive muck against Donegal which won them the All Ireland , other Counties copied this approach unfortunately, he should really open his eyes ref his own County Kerry , and let his hatred of Dublin go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 972 ✭✭✭J Cheever Loophole


    I realise these are extremely difficult days for you, but unfortunately it is what it is. If I could offer a degree of comfort, it would be that the next 12 months will just fly by and before you know it, these days and weeks will become a bad and distant memory.

    I have another party to go to this evening, which seems rather inappropriate, given what you are going through, but I promise that you will remain in my thoughts and prayers.

    Please stay strong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    I wouldnt agree.

    Flash in the pan for me would have been if Down had won the AI against Cork in 2010. Came from nowhere, surprised Kerry in the QF, almost won that game against Cork, and then returned to relative obscurity.

    Maybe yes Armagh will do well to win an AI - but lets be honest, you'd expect on recent past form that any county other than Dublin or Kerry will do well to win an AI.

    In the past 20 years, the AI has been won by teams other than Dublin / Kerry just 6 times.

    If the AI isnt to be won by Dublin/ Kerry then there are maybe 4 or 5 other teams that are in the mix. Armagh is one of those teams. I dont think you could disagree with that.

    They have been a very decent team the past 3 or 4 years.

    I wouldnt use the term flash in the pan - they put themselves in contention, and took the opportunity.

    Can they win in 2025 - I would say they are one of 6 or 7 teams that could win it. Dublin, Kerry, Galway, Mayo, Donegal, Armagh…at a stretch Tyrone or Derry. Winner next year will be 99.9% certain from that list, and 70% likely it will be Dublin or Kerry.

    I would also say - I think they will be much stronger team next year than Tyrone in 2022.

    Also - no star players? Rian O'Neill? Grugan? Campbell?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,451 ✭✭✭tritium


    Jesus it must be hard to live with Dublin in your head all the time. It’s well known and accepted that the massed defence was an Ulster innovation (and a useful if pragmatic one), building on what some successful teams in previous decades had developed. The more patient style of possession football became an approach to counter that, developed by Dublin mainly, but used by many teams., albeit some such as your own side have perhaps overdone things due to an overreliance on one or two players and a lack of fitness


    Equally that style puts an emphasis on the goalkeepers role as first playmaker, reducing the reliance on punting the ball down the middle and hoping a big lad can catch it. That said fielding isn’t gone, it’s just less important, not in itself a bad thing. Indeed Dublins midfield can match most for that, while having in Fenton a player who may be the best to ever play that position, certainly top 3.


    in reality football is greatly evolved in the last 30 years, some good some bad. At its best it’s arguably more skillful and diverse than ever. There is however a need for the rules to keep pace (a proper tackle is needed for example) but that’s true of most sports, with both soccer and rugby also seeing significant rule changes in that period


    Sundays game, and indeed the semi finals were great examples of that evolution, with some good football based on understanding space and transition between defence and attack, backed with the athletic ability to sustain that. While it had flaws the skills and execution are dramatically ahead of what was played in the 70’s and 80’s, with a much more complete game on display that emphasises 15 skillful players

    Post edited by tritium on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    There are teams being 'slated' all over the thread and forum. Try and get over your own team getting a bit.
    The 'you started it' childishness is not very edifying tbh either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    That's a bit over the top. Armagh have been knocking around close to the top table the past few years. I know it was only a league match, but I recall them beating Dublin quite emphatically couple of years ago - it was the first time that I had noticed one Rian O'Neill. He gave Davy Byrne some lesson in football. And they were in a couple of quarter finals - knocked out on penos. This is not a flash in the pan. With Dublin and Kerry knocked out, it was left open for the likes of Galway, Armagh, Donegal, Derry etc. to seize the opportunity. If any of those counties won it, by your reckoning, it would be a flash in the pan. So basically, if any team other than Dublin or Kerry win the All-Ireland, is it a flash in the pan for them too.

    You mention about Armagh constantly slowing things down - backwards and sideways passes. Did you watch the game on Sunday. It was the other way around. It's well documented at this stage about Galway's slow play on Sunday, and how frustrating it was to watch. On the other hand, it was Armagh who broke up the field with some form of speed and ambition. See the break that Stefan Campbell made from the sideline, directly towards goal and passed it across for the goal. Galway did not show that ambition once on Sunday. Armagh can mix it up well. They have high-fielders like O'Neill and Turbitt, and they all seem really comfortable on the ball.

    I don't see this as a flash in the pan at all. I think they have been promising something for the past 4 years, and this year they delivered. If they don't win an All-Ireland again for a number of years, it doesn't make this a lucky All-Ireland for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    I think they had a bit of luck, but only in the sense that any second tier team (i.e. not Dublin or Kerry) will have a bit of luck on the way to winning an AI.

    For example - if Galway had won on Sunday, then you could definitely say they were 'lucky' that Dublin had an off-day in the QF, that Con O'Callaghan missed a late chance that he would normally put away, and that nearly every shot they took in the second half went over. And that they were 'lucky' to get a soft enough free (over carrying) in the fifth minute of injury time against Mayo to win the game.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Armagh play with quite a bit of variety compared to most teams. They kick long appropriately and have a few tactical innovations.

    They've been very consistent over the past few seasons so I wouldn't say they are a flash in the pan.

    At the same time I wouldn't say they're a great team who'll dominate for a few years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,830 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    In the first half of the final, Armagh achieved their scores with half the possession of Galway, as the latter were endlessly passing the ball and forth. In a way, Galway were Armagh had been back at the League Div 2 final, but Armagh continued to work on their game and tweak things.

    It is easy to gripe about the modern game, but Sunday showed excellent defensive skills, with many turnovers and few frees. Toward the end there was one long pass to Ross McQuillan, but Galway had the defensive skills to get the ball and avert the danger.

    Armagh might not win another All Ireland in the near future, if they had 1.5 million people then perhaps they might have a better chance. That they do not have this population but can still win will encourage Donegal, Derry etc and so we might have a period of real competition in football.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,252 ✭✭✭✭km79


    I sure wish Mayo could be a flash in the pan some year :(



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