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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The PIRA/PSF kill the most nationalists during the troubles?

    The 'onesided' conflict/war only exists in your head Clo.
    If I 'made up something' please point it out



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Im off out on the boat for the day

    The numbers killed during the troubles is well reported and provided to you multiple times already so constantly. As usual it's another Francie rabbit hole of going in circles and ignoring information already provided.

    Leave you to head down a rabbit hole, makey uppey stories I have no time for



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Where did I mention or make any claims about the numbers killed?

    You want to cherrypick and rant, work away. Is it debating the actual points raised = no.

    Over 3000 people got killed in a conflict/war here. The participants/combatants in that war/conflict are all still involved in the politics of this island, the British, the Irish and those who identify as British.

    It seems to be a reality you have difficulty with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    That was my understanding as well. There's an awful lot of spoofers on here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    It is a statement of fact that the Provos were responsible for the murders of more catholics/nationalists than any other group in NI. They also covered up rape and child abuse, kneecapped young lads for dealing drugs or falling out with the local provo hardman; ran criminal enterprises, disappeared people, tortured people, shot people based on their religion.

    That’s the reality of the provos.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    No point was raised, you made up some nonsense little story about the poor PSF. Not the first story either.

    Now gone off on some ranty tangent to cover it up.

    The facts are PIRA with the support of PSF killed the most nationalist during the troubles. Trying to make push an agenda to make out PSF was been hard done by won't wash with me.

    When you see even today people are afraid to go to Gardai without approval from PSF confirms the fear is still in the community about the repurcussion that good law abiding people have.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    The facts are PIRA with the support of PSF killed the most nationalist during the troubles. Trying to make push an agenda to make out PSF was been hard done by won't wash with me.

    Which was not being discussed ^^^^ until you went off on a rant.

    And I made no attempt to portray a group I didn't support as being 'hard done by'.

    What I said was, like I accept that it was not by any means a onesided conflict/war the reality was that if you were in SF during the conflict/war it could get you killed, intimidated or interned, so secrecy was the outcome.

    If you cannot handle that simple observation without going off on one, that's your problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    Such a load of rubbish and deflection!

    I asked how Michelle O'Neill was selected not some local county council candidate!

    So, either show us the details of her selection and appointment or admit that, unlike the other parties the selection isn't open and transparent!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Why would I 'have' to do that? I am not a member.

    Anyway. I do know that she was the only candidate nominated through the Cumann's and went before the Ard Fheis for approval, She fought off a leadership challenge from John O'Dowd winning over 60% of the vote, if memory serves me correctly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭agoodusername


    Going back to the original question on forming a government, I don't think there is any path for SF to do so unless we see a huge shift or a breakdown in relations between the coalition partners.

    If the election were 18 months away I'd say that they'd have a chance but the government parties will do what it takes not to rock the boat with <6 months left of their mandate.

    In any case, given that this discussion started over two years ago, SF route to government was always extremely limited and would've relied on an exceptionally unbalanced coalition of smaller partners and independents or some sort of major turn in FF strategy.

    I prefer not to comment on political opinions and swaying support, but SF almost certainly need to pivot from their current approach if they want to lead the country, or else return to being a single-issue left-wing party with limited appeal outside of their traditional heartlands. The unity shown by FF/FG is honestly quite impressive as there haven't been many suggestions of a premature end to the current arrangement, which I can very much see lasting another 5 years.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,249 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    SF are already pivoting from their current approach; but they're pivoting right and it is unlikely to endear them to either option (FF or cobbled together coalition)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'd agree that SF being in government is gone for the time being and remark that what you see as 'impressive', others including myself would see as a protective circling of the wagons around activity and incompetence that would normally end a government prematurely. I expect to see more of it until the electorate tire of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    and FF had already come out and said no chance of a coalition with SF policies which are now further away as they chase the ?? Not sure what vote they are flip flopping over now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    and FF had already come out and said no chance of a coalition with SF 

    They said the same about coalition with FG in 2020. I'd be pretty sure most people including SF don't believe a word they say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭pureza


    If SF are not in government next time,you'd have to ask them the question though as to what part of their offerring is resonating less with the electorate than the current government's and why ?

    At what point do you stop being a party that attracts disparate forces of protest or discontent who don't stay with you,and become a party more centre voters can say yes I trust you to keep me as prosperous as I now am



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    Not "a" member is probably true… as an individual. Given the hours you put in 'members" is more likely 😂

    Anyway… Nope, that was the second time round on 2019 when they when she was 're-elected"… but of course you are well aware of that and choose to continue to bluff and obfuscate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Elephant in the room for SF:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,635 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Probably the dumbest question I've ever seen asked.

    That's before you get to the responders. Hardly a brain cell in many a head there I'd guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    More deflection and obfuscation from you.

    All leadership elections for real political parties are played out in public.

    Maybe you missed the recent election of new leaders for Fine Gael and the Green Party?

    Now, to get back to the original question who appointed Michelle O'Neill first time around?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Let’s not forget the last election was a revolt vote

    PSF as I said at the time needed Covid to bring down the government, time was their enemy. If they had brought down the government in Covid they probably would have walked an election. But they flip flopped around and Mary Lou was terrible with the “open the pubs” , “close the pubs” carry on

    With a full term government it was always going in one direction once people got past Covid etc and then started to look at policies etc. once non PSF supporters and even more concerning for PSF is their own supporters looked at their policies they left

    Plus the online army are a joke, driving people away day by day instead of attracting them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    SF don’t do it in public. I think there are reasons for that as stated earlier.
    If you can prove that there is some kinda of dictatorship in play, work away.
    BTW I didn’t know how FG or FF chose their leaders and still voted for them.
    I see a similar party to any other here, people are free to join and leave and they do.
    So go ahead, don’t obfuscate or deflect, give us some proof that there is something untoward going on?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    All elections that reject the sitting government are ‘revolt’ votes.

    Politics, Lesson 1.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Already discussed in detail, sticking head in sand and going down yet another rabbit hole, you tried that already. Didnt work that time either and no point going back over it again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,083 ✭✭✭✭blanch152




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,083 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    It is quite a shocking poll. On every conspiracy theory question SF voters and supporters are right up there believing it. Given my experience of SF supporters on here, I am not in the least surprised.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Your monarchial idea of our electoral system while cute is inaccurate.

    All elections that reject a sitting government can be seen as 'revolts'. It's sour grapes from somebody who thinks there is an entitlement.

    78% didn't vote FF, -2% swing from 2016

    80% didn't vote FG, -4% swing from 2016 and

    76% didn't vote SF. +10% swing to SF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,817 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    And that is a huge issue. Because maybe if SF gets into power they will decide not to do government in public either.

    The thing about democracy for all it's flaws is we have found nothing better than it. For democracy to continue to exist we need to see it in action and it actually working. SF is saying it know better in the way it appoints it leader. It doesn't do it the democratic way.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,431 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    Totally!

    Just look at how they treat their people. Francie here works from 7 in the morning until midnight 7 days a week 😳

    He and P O’Neill having Irish surnames (rare enough as the shinners are predominantly from garrison stock) are their media and online face.

    They must have them permanently attached to the office chair… maybe a couple of screws through the kneecaps 😂



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,422 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The great 'transperancy' delusion.
    How many times in the term of this government alone have we depended on journalists to reveal what the government and it's members were doing? Look at the upset and ranting here when an opposition leader claims the government are saying one thing about immigration and doing another.
    I wouldn't join FG because my vote as a member can be ignored by an elite in the party (I don't know how this elite with ultimate say, are appointed, do you?) nor would I join SF but members of both parties who have free will seem happy with whatever systems they have in place.
    If you think any government ever here was transparent about what it was doing in all things I have some beans I wanna sell you.



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