Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Cross-border review of rail network officially launched

Options
13637394142

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,892 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Motorways tho are generally an easy win to local communities with junctions every few kilometres.


    Tell the same community you’re building a new railway line and the nearest station is 15-30km away, and you’ll get opposition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,006 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The only thing that's ever been on a serious pathway to delivery from it was Navan. Nothing else was.

    edit: the Pace<>Navan line is even on the baseline map as something expected to be delivered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,006 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Full doc here, doesn't look much different to previous draft

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cc8fc-all-island-strategic-rail-review/



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,979 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    it's a report, it'll be added to all the others on the shelf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,837 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    I got the enterprise from Portadown to Dublin on the 11th of July.

    I got it from Dublin to Portadown on Monday past and there was no announcement for people to disembark at Portadown...there were still people on the train when I got off.

    Yet I saw the sign on the train saying that Belfast was closed and a bus service would be in operation.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 9,580 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I've reviewed it and I'm not sure any part has been announced before, perhaps DART Underground which is only vaguely mentioned, and the airport spur, but that was never an actual project. It was stated before that long term policy was to increase speeds to 200kmh, close level crossings and decarbonise but there has not been a plan as specific as this before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Economics101


    How does this report differ from the initial report published a few months ago?

    Are we into a cycle of repeated announcements of the same hoped-for projects?

    Given the debacle of ABP shafting the DART+ West project yesterday, how many decades of ABP delays will there be? Current planning laws make large scale rail developments a total nightmare, and I don't know of any serious proposed changes which will change things.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Just FYI, from the report summary:

    These recommendations do not represent official policy for either jurisdiction, but aim to provide a constructive,
    evidence-based approach for delivering the Goals and Objectives of this Review

    Note the bold above is in the report, not me!

    Just so folks understand the context of what this means. It is a useful policy document, but not real plans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,580 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The previous one was a draft for public consultation



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    LOL, the controversial bit:

    It appears that the best way forward for boosting connectivity in the South East of Ireland in the shorter term is to introduce an hourly shuttle service between Wexford and Greystones, with DART services to be extended to Wicklow.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    BTW There is nothing substantially different with the final report.

    One thing that did catch my eye is that the report is to be reviewed and updated once a decade.

    Here are the changes:

    Amendments to the final Report
    The following amendments have been
    included in this final Report to take
    account of feedback from responses
    received from the public consultation.

    • A specific new recommendation to
    continue to invest in improving
    accessibility on the rail network,
    including rolling out step-free access
    more widely. The Review also
    commits to undertake Equality Impact
    Assessments when schemes are
    taken forward for future development.

    • A new recommendation for both
    jurisdictions to undertake a refresh of
    this Review once a decade.

    • The report has been amended to
    clarify that the proposed new railway
    between Derry~Londonderry and
    Portadown should be designed to
    accommodate line speeds up to
    200km/h / 125mph, where this is found
    in further study to be beneficial, as
    was intended in the Draft Final Report.

    • The Report has been amended to
    reflect plans to improve connectivity to
    the South East – as outlined in the
    latest Greater Dublin Area Transport
    Strategy – to include the extension of
    the DART network to Wicklow.

    • The timeline for delivery has been
    adjusted to bring forward the
    reinstatement of the North Midlands
    railway between Portadown and
    Armagh from a long-term to a
    medium-term horizon.

    • Maps have been amended to include
    a proposed new station at Craigavon.

    • Some technical wording has been
    adjusted to ensure it reflects the “high-
    level” nature of the Review (for
    example, by removing references to
    in-cab signalling).

    • A reference has been added to the
    Executive Summary to emphasise the
    need to safeguard alignments for future
    railways and stations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The new report is the old one, plus two more recommendations (inclusion and access; and a recommendation to do another review in 10 years), and a section on public feedback. It also lists the changes made since that draft, as follows:


    The following amendments have been included in this final Report to take account of feedback from responses received from the public consultation.
      • A specific new recommendation to continue to invest in improving accessibility on the rail network, including rolling out step-free access more widely. The Review also commits to undertake Equality Impact Assessments when schemes are taken forward for future development.
      • A new recommendation for both jurisdictions to undertake a refresh of this Review once a decade.
      • The report has been amended to clarify that the proposed new railway between Derry~Londonderry and Portadown should be designed to accommodate line speeds up to 200km/h / 125mph, where this is found in further study to be beneficial, as was intended in the Draft Final Report.
      • The Report has been amended to reflect plans to improve connectivity to the South East – as outlined in the latest Greater Dublin Area Transport Strategy – to include the extension of the DART network to Wicklow.
      • The timeline for delivery has been adjusted to bring forward the reinstatement of the North Midlands railway between Portadown and Armagh from a long-term to a medium-term horizon.
      • Maps have been amended to include a proposed new station at Craigavon.
      • Some technical wording has been adjusted to ensure it reflects the “highlevel” nature of the Review (for example, by removing references to in-cab signalling).
      • A reference has been added to the Executive Summary to emphasise the need to safeguard alignments for future railways and stations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 orb123


    Maybe not as controversial as a vocal minority leads people to believe. The review states "The small number of respondents from Wexford were generally more positive towards the recommendations of the Review.."



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,006 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The local papers already covered it as such - most people who use the line are OK with it if it improves services, but rail enthusiasts who like the idea of going down the DSER in one go are horrified.

    We don't build our network for enthusiasts. This is why even this report doesn't recommend reopening Claremorris to Colooney!



  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Westernview


    That sounds like the expected changes from a draft to final report. Changes based on responses to consultations. Wouldn't have expected any big surprises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    This is the same report with minor amends to the one that was published last year. It isn't policy and it isn't funded. Just another shiny report to sit on a shelf in government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Westernview


    It clearly isn't the same as already described by earlier posters today. It's similar yes but how different did you expect a draft document to be from a final release version? And no one is saying it's policy or funded.



  • Registered Users Posts: 460 ✭✭Bodan


    Just as a comparison to one of our nearest neighbors, France plans to invest 100 billion euros in rail infrastructure by 2040 , on top of what they have got already.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-plans-invest-100-billion-euros-rail-infrastructure-by-2040-2023-02-24/



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,006 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This plan is 37Bn for a country about a sixth of the size



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    I clearly said it had minor amends, very minor by the looks of it. I would expect more changes based on public feedback. Why bother having a public consultation period if nothing is really changing 12 months after that consultation? Just a box ticking exercise.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Perhaps the public are largely happy with it. Or maybe some of the changes requested by the public were considered but didn't make sense. But again I don't know what further changes you expected as you haven't said. Did you make submissions on it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,580 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    So then the all Ireland rail strategy is very ambitious in comparison considering France having 10 times the population and all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,348 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    We need to be more ambitious because the French spending is a top up and ours a revolution.

    What's the comparative spend for the last 50/60 years ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,057 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Just happened to be listening to a podcast earlier today which touched on this issue. UK government finances are not in a good state and generous funding for NI won't be popular in England, Scotland and Wales where Labour actually contest elections. We've already seen them implement a benefits cut in England and Wales.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,348 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Starmer today publicly backed Casement which everyone also said he wouldn't care about.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,580 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Indeed but let's be realistic. We've had 100 years of managed decline of the railway and the state is only wealthy around 20 years, non consecutively. France has ran an empire that extracts resources from the rest of the world since the railway was invented.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    While that is all very true, I do think it makes a useful framework and vision for how the rail network should develop.

    Having said that I'd be pleasantly shocked if even half of it is delivered over the next 30 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,348 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    I fully expect them to have better trains and spend way more than us.

    I wouldn't be getting too worried about actual French spending compared to how much we say this plan will cost though because plenty of this will never happen. It's like a catwalk dress.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,057 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That makes substantial rail investment in NI less likely, not more likely tbh.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 69,006 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Would push the Antrim line and possible airport station well up the agenda for urgent attention though.



Advertisement