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USA 2024 presidential election

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Respectfully, I don't think there's a "maybe". I don't see how a family anywhere can subsist, much less thrive, on a single person's income without that salary being extremely high and/or a large amount of inherited wealth involved.

    Conservatism over there looks to me like a crusade aimed at establishing a caste system with women reduced to the role of producing the next generation of labourers, most men being stuck in menial jobs while a ruling elite owns as much as possible. I'm reminded of a scene from BoJack Horseman where murder becomes legal for billionaires.

    Honestly, a part of me thinks that either Trump wins in November or Trump or a successor wins in 2029. Project 2025 looks like Brexit - inevitable.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭amandstu


    I hope you are wrong and that it is a larger demographic than just "minor".

    I am not qualified to have an opinion on that...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Respectfully, I don't think there's a "maybe". I don't see how a family anywhere can subsist, much less thrive, on a single person's income without that salary being extremely high and/or a large amount of inherited wealth involved.

    What is it they say? America is a 3rd World Country presenting as a 1st World one? I don't think you can overestimate just how cripplingly poor some parts of White America is once you leave the major urban centres - yet you'd tear your hair out trying to rationalise how that same demographic trends towards the side of the chamber routinely gutting welfare, healthcare or education.

    Poor White America got Trump over the line in 2016 precisely because they were left behind - yet they keep buying the lies peddled by the GOP and MAGA; you're right you can't subsist on a single person's income - but if you're stuck in the American version of a Sink Estate, trapped within a cage created by the GOP - how do you know better?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I caught a clip of Anthony Scaramucci (I know) but he was making the point that 20M "Boomers" have died since the 2016 election and nearly 40M Millennials/GenZ are now of voting age in the same time frame including 8M since the 2022 Elections alone.

    That demographic shift is very significant which is why I think the Right are so desperate this time around.. If they don't win now, it's hard to see how they win in 4 years time.

    I saw something similar for the UK , based on typical life expectancy something like 20% of Tory voters in the recent election won't be alive at the next one assuming the Government serves a full term.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Third world country with a Gucci belt is the one I am familiar with. Also: One party state so extravagant that they had to have a second party.

    I've heard tales from people I know who've been outside the major cities so I'd well believe it. I would argue against the use of "left behind" though. They've actively voted for their own economic destruction for decades now and they've reaped the appropriate reward.

    To know better, you have to want to learn and grow but there's a strong culture of anti-intellectualism in the US so, for many people, having the likes of Tucker Carlson do the thinking for you is common enough. It's just mad to me how so many go bankrupt annually and yet nobody asks why they can't afford something that's free at the point of use in the UK.

    They have free speech but there's a fair bit of taboo along with it. Even in the sitcoms I love so much, characters who are supposed to be poor live in luxury and nobody ever has a problem with medical bills or being sued (except for comic effect).

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    It's significant but Trump was ahead of Biden in the polls as I remember. I know polls are flawed and all but that must mean something? The problems with hordes of disaffected men won't have abated because the boomers are passing the torch, albeit involuntarily.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I think a lot can be explained by under-education; it's not without reason the GOP have really made sure schools and colleges are as crippled as possible without completely closing. Couple that with a foundational culture that seeds a resting hostility towards any kind of government intervention being automatically bad at worst, suspect at best, and you got a demographic who'll vote against their own best interests. It's a rats nest of contradictions really that'd take paragraphs to unfurl.

    I always enjoy this tweet, the foundation of a sub-reddit whose content is kinda along those lines; despairing at ostensible "good news" stories failing to recognise the larger systemic problems int he first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,345 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    He comes across surprisingly well on the Rest is Politics.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I'm jumping the shark a little but the point holds:

    One of the best things I ever did was emigrating. I'd consider returning if I could afford it but to be stuck in a mindset that would kill your curiosity, sense of wonder and desire to learn sounds soul-destroying, honestly. That's the reason the GOP hate education. There's a reason it turns a lot of people into liberals.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,437 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    The Palestine issue gets a lot of attention in the media but realistically the vast majority of the global population doesn't care. Even less care the further you are from the Middle East

    But a minority is all trump needed to swing it in 2016 so get enough of them on side and Harris will sing her way to the oval office



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,132 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Seniors over 65 favored Biden over Trump in polling I think, its a major reason why Biden would have fancied his chances even with other polling so bad most notably swing states as they are the most reliable voting bloc about.

    Whether Harris can hold them will play a big role in November.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,707 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    I think she'll have the advantage of Biden singing about what a great job they did but need to continue to do to protect Social Security and Medicare from the depravities of CFTrump and his ilk. Biden focused on seniors will be a big plus for Harris. Biden lowering insulin prices is a big political point, many many seniors in the US rely on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Derkaiser93


    I'm probably injecting some serious hopium , but I'm weirdly optimistic about Kamala Harris chances. Early days, could be all media bluff and just a brief bounce/ honeymoon period but I do sense a massive change in energy and enthusiasm. The dems rallying together, tsunami of donations even from small ground level donors is a great sign, the polls closing right up again.
    I'll caveat that though by the fact she has a lot of work to do to make up ground. Pennsylvania and Michigan especially look like they're must win and keys for the Dems and it's gonna be super hard to win them again.
    The hope is that Trump peaked in the weeks gone by and peaked too early . With the debate, the assassination attemp and RNC. JD Vance as well, running mates dont usually make all that difference, but he seems a disastrous pick and offers nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,707 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Lots of enthusiasm for Harris, the more that vote, the better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,345 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I see Don Jr. interviewed Vance last night. Seems like it wasn't much of an interview though. Vance couldn't get a word in because Jr. was so coked off his head and was talking a mile a minute.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Obviously being ostensible satire, I'm sure there's a degree of cherry picking going by Stewart but his run-down of the last week or two does kinda hint that the GOP really didn't (yet) how to handle Harris and its media mouthpieces have been flailing around with some frankly outrageous swings.

    Does read like they haven't figured out a tactic yet and maybe in the comings weeks they will, undoubtedly. But it does all smell like scrambling in lieu of any concrete point of attack. No more than it was with Biden himself TBH in 2020: GOP had no clear path on policy so leant on the same shít they did with Clinton - innuendo over "criminality" with Hunter Biden, as it was with Hillary & alleged malfeasance.

    As far as I can see Harris just doesn't have the same kind of … I dunno how to describe it other than skeleton adjacent history in her cupboard, so what then? If all they can manage is trash-talk about her romantic history via creeps and malcontents like Ben Shapiro? Coming polls are gonna be very interesting to read, unreliable as they might be and if there has been any kind of bounce.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,178 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I hate to do the both sides thing but, save Project 2025, I can't name a single policy from either candidate. Presumably, Harris intends to continue along the course that Biden has trekked. Trump will continue to do Trump things as he did in 2017-2020. If I were a US resident, I'd be voting Harris to keep out Trump. I have nothing beyond that.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    I'd be voting Harris as I want abortion protected federally, oh and she's in favour of green energy.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Oh Harris is absolutely pitched as the continuity candidate and the only reason she's here was because Biden's age was deemed insurmountable to the Democrats and those leaning that way in November. Some of the relieved celebrations from the centre-to-left have been like they already won.

    But what's interesting on the whole is that so far I'm seeing no compelling narrative created or avenue taken by the GOP that suggests they have a handle on how to counter Harris' campaign. Like they just assumed Biden was too stubborn to step down and they had no Plans B. It has even been suggested had they known Harris was incoming, Vance would not have been the VP pick.

    Their biggest attack was Biden's age; now that's gone and this has now only exposed their own candidate along the same lines. And with a new rival candidate now remarkably clean of issues it's showing the GOP up as empty vessels, howling prejudice out of lack of any clear alternative path. Even talk of Harris' personal life only exposes Trump even more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Biden ran out of what electioneering steam he ever had and was dragging his party down with him.

    Now the Dems have someone to support in an energetic way and hopefully the case against the GOP and their Monkey Rider will be prosecuted in a professional way.

    Biden sure was a man for the times ,just not these times (was there really a possibility he would have held on ? It sure was beginning to feel that way)

    Old age sucks but the GOP old ager is and has always been sucking the life out of everyone else.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,132 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    The immigration bill which Trump shut down she has said she will sign, its clever politics, but its ultimately a GOP immigration bill, so yeah on one side makes sense but damn American politics is bleak right now.

    We have a right wing party and whatever the heck the Republican party is. You don't have to be a hardcore socialist to be unexcited about it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I think had one side not such an egregiously destructive, wannabe dictatorial candidate the conversation might have been more about the lack of left-of-centre representation on either ticket, absolutely; but a right-leaning Californian is practically Trotsky when the other side is openly embracing the lure of authoritarianism & warping America's executive power into something absolute.

    Back in 2016 you saw in the Democratic Primary a pretty clear conversation about finally embracing a more openly socialist candidate with the likes of Sanders or Warren talking up more leftie language (obviously compared with Europe you can debate how "socialist" either were). I think when, of all people, Hillary Clinton nosed ahead of Bernie Sanders it really shrank the Left's enthusiasm … even suddenly meaning this outsider Donald Trump appealed with his drain the swamp narrative. Maybe there was some political establishment after all if after all the buzz Clinton got the nod & spoke of "her turn".

    Of course we saw how that all went, but it's curious how the last 2 election cycles there's nary a mumble about the Democrats' poverty of left-leaning choices or priorities. Not to any national, mainstream degree. And until MAGA is stamped out or dies with Trump, I kinda get it: America democracy is still in Crisis Mode & radical swings to the left could only further the agenda of the Hard Christian Right trying to upend the country. I don't even know how you unring the bell of this increasingly hostile Christian Right, but going Left mightn't be it.

    Mind you, all that said, Harris could canter all the way through November into the White House … but it speaks to that Crisis Mode nobody has yet asked "yeah but Trump, what if you lose?" … cos again, we saw how that went the last time & I see no reason why MAGA is this time gonna say, "yeah we lost, fair enough".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    She was appointed the "boarder czar" by Biden in 2021 but now the media started gaslightingeveryone everyone by saying she wasn't. America does need to get a grip on the boarder as its just out of control. I'm surprised Trump has jumped on the fact Harris said she'll make an executive order to confiscate guns if Congress don't do, going after people's guns a trigger happy country like America isn't the best idea but interesting to see how people take to that idea



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,341 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    She wasnt border czar the way you mean it. That is well established by numerous media outlets. The only gaslighting is repeating the Republican lies about it.

    Trump ordered his stooges in Congress to block a bipartisan bill on the border. A bill that had the support of Biden, Republican committee members and border patrol unions.

    Just to deny Biden a 'win' and leave it as an issue Trump could campaign on - in bad faith.

    Only one party is trying to be grown up here and actually govern responsibly. The other side are grifters and stooges and cowards who bend the knee to Trump.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭moon2


    Ah, Trump is probably aware that the "executive order" quote is fake, and any attempt to weaponise it would backfire by simply playing back any of the innumerable videos of her speech where she said the opposite of that :)

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/kamala-harris-guns-confiscation/

    Then again, you're calling all the data explaining the inaccuracies of the "border czar" claim as fake news, so it's unsurprising you're also quoting other false stories as fact. For reference, there are many reputable sites investigating that claim. The facts here are a little more nuanced than the previous bogus claim, but overall it's also false based on what she was actually tasked with.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=is+kamala+haris+the+border+czar+snopes&t=euandroid&chrome_dse_attribution=1&ia=web

    Post edited by moon2 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,345 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Trump did a car crash interview with 4 black women representing the National Association of Black Journalists

    • Straight off the bat he was asked about all his racist and sexists comments about black women in the past and rather than attempt to justify them he instead attacked the interviewer (of course he did) for being nasty
    • He stated that Kamala Harris has only recently started identifying as black (she hasn't)
    • His own team ended the interview early to try and get him out of there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69




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