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Ireland’s Olympics boxers Paris 2024

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Jack Marley has a career defining fight on his hands tonight, it's been a long time since we had a heavyweight that could hold his own at any level and Jack is the man. He's still only 21 but has a wealth of experience already, winning his first National Title at 11 years of age.

    I fancy his chances tonight.

    His opponent is ranked no. 2 seed for the Gold and has had 4 professional fights winning them all with 2 by KO.

    He'll have his work cut out with Jack tonight though. Jack packs an awesome punch from both hands, is well able to take a serious hit on the button and his tenacious style will trouble any heavyweight on the planet.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I was never aware of that. I do know that judges can use how boxers 'behave' in the ring in deciding a round score. So, if a rd is very close and a judge is unsure, he/she may decide the result of the rd based on discipline/fouls/cautions etc.

    The offending boxer, or boxer most offending loses the round. IBA I believe did away with this as a specific criteria, and replaced it with "competitiveness." But judges will still use it within the scope of competitiveness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭RoscommonHero


    Easy to say that. When your opponent is holding you after every exchange it's hard to showcase your boxing skills especially if the referee lets her away with it time and time again. The third round was absurd…the ref let the Pole make it messy and incredibly she got rewarded for it by the judges. She also, for some reason, tried taunting/smiling after being picked off. It as if some of the judges are so lacking in knowledge that they go on stuff like body language which is ridicilous. Am I correct in saying a lot of the judges are new and were chosen late in the day?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The judges are qualified to judge at that level. If new, it doesn't matter. They have to qualify to judge elite level amateur boxing. There is criteria to judge.

    It's never an exact science when two boxers are going at it, and can be more difficult when it's messy and awkward, as was last night.

    Too much back and forth I think. I thought Aoife did enough to nick it, but nicking it is not always going to get you over the line. Number one criteria for judges is landed/clean shots on the target area. Very difficult to say either boxer was clear in winning on that criterion.

    Rest of the criteria is about ring generalship and effective aggression and competitiveness. Again, difficult to separate them

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭RoscommonHero


    The Irish commentators and pundits are trying too hard to be dignified and seen to be even-handed. Fine, that's fair enough but looking on Twitter most of the British pundits thought Aoife was robbed. They have no skin in the game and have seen some of their own boxers the victims of questionable judging. Steve Bunce said that Aoife won the fight comfortably for example.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,041 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    My beef with the current system is how can reward an ugly brawler with a limited skills set who spends most of the nine minutes holding and spoiling. If they love watching ugly brawlers who can hardly box, great, but in that case they shouldn't really be judging at an Olympic Games.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,909 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Or they should ask to judge Wrestling contests instead! It must be terribly disheartening to train for 4 years to only be let down by questionable scoring and poor officiating.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,909 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    I think both the Irish and UK fighters have definitely been on the receiving end of both refs and judges this time around.

    I thought this was supposed to be all tidied up ???

    Its very worrying and it makes me wonder about the future of the sport as far as the Olympics goes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,992 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Those were the rules in theory. At least under the old 20 points system. I'm going back 15 years or so. A judge could also "override" a ref's warning and decide not to deduct a point. They had to still mark on the paper to show that they saw the ref's warning. I can't remember whether there were buttons for the computer scoring for it though. It might have only been used for paper scoring.

    It might be changed now because I can't find it on any current official source. The below link was the only thing I could find which appears to be an old English ABA rulebook. But this would have been taken from AIBA (at the time). See page 64. You could box for years and not be aware it was an option. In practice though, the judge would follow the ref 99% of the time.

    https://lionsamateurboxingclub.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/rules_of_boxing.pdf

    What it seems to be now from the links I have found (albeit a very brief google so don't quote me on it) is that the judges don't deduct the warnings now directly and that there is one supervisor instead. So maybe they don't have discretion anymore



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Not a huge boxing fan but I enjoy watching it at the Olympics and the occassional bout outside of that - would it be possible to use some sort of sensor technology to "count" the hits a boxer takes during a fight? Or has anything like this been trialled at all? I'm sure it wouldn't be a perfect system but it could be a more objective way of judging amateur fights



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭SaoPaulo41


    Delete wrong thread



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Does anyone know how many medals we're likely to win in boxing?

    Kellie has one and if Jack wins tonight, then that's another.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    We have four boxers left…Kellie has one and Marley has a tough fight tonight for number two. We need Daina at 50 to win two fights and Michaela Walsh at 57 kgs to win two fights

    4 medals (at this stage) would be super



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    But there has to be a way to count and use other areas of a boxing match….like aggression, pressure, volume, defence, footwork, cleanness etc. Maybe use your solution in conjunction. Very very difficult to implement. Different types shots and different forces etc need to be looked at. Example: a glancing jab landing cannot be scored same as a clean hook.

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Fair play to that Italian boxer for pulling out of her bout in the first round.

    Anybody who says there is no danger with the increased power is a liar.

    All learning lessons now.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,041 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Has the team underperformed? There has been a lot of first time eliminations….more than anyone anticipated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    How can anyone truly know? It's not like other sports where PBs can be taken and measured and analysed. If we get 4 medals, will that be a success or a failure? 4 medals from 10 boxers…They get one shot and it's win or bust. No getting a second shot as a best loser, like say in track or swimming, where even if beaten, you can still progress. You could be faced with the best in the group in your first fight.

    Just look at how difficult it is to qualify. Less than 50 percent males qualified for Ireland. I think there are 10 weights, and we only got 4 in.

    The losers may or may not have performed to their best, but very difficult to measure this. Maybe their opponents were just a lil better on the day

    Edit. 7 weights in men's Olympics now….we qualified 50 + percent. And qualified all for the women. That's pretty solid

    Post edited by walshb on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,041 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I notice Team GB has had the exact same problem : five of their six boxers went out in the first round of matches.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Eurosport at 16:00 showing live QFS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,606 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    There are a range of sports that are marked by judges. Gymnastics, ice skating, diving are rated by a selection of judges. We rarely hear of 'bad' decisions in these sports. Boxing seems to have a problem, IWT. Fairly clear Aoife won her fight.



  • Registered Users Posts: 151 ✭✭RoscommonHero


    Ireland and GB not lobbying the right people to influence the judges

    Play fair, face despair



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    cannot compare these sports to two boxers who are so “very directly” competing against each other. It is not comparable. Gymnasts perform on their own and are judged then. Same with ice skating and diving. Boxing is two boxers fighting each other and judges trying to separate winner from loser based off criteria.

    Sports you mention far more rigid-controlled criteria. Judges sing off same hymn sheet.

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭Will_I_Amnt


    And Taiwan's Lin Yu Ting (the other boxer banned from the female world championships) is inline to fight Ireland's Michaela Walsh next Monday in the quarter finals if they both win their bouts tomorrow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    But the Algerian was born female. She is not male. If she was truly a man, the power point you make would be very true. The issue here centres around gender testing to meet eligibility. According to IOC, the boxers passed to compete. IBA disqualified both from 2023 WCs due to failing eligibility. It’s up in the air this.

    Similar to Caster Semenya from 2009 onwards..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 355 ✭✭Diddley Squat


    Where are you guys watching the boxing ….. nightmare trying to find it online.

    Not just the Irish matches , but all the boxing

    ANybody know how Oralbay is doing



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,538 ✭✭✭✭walshb




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    There's 8-9 eurosport channels on my IPTV, it's usually on one of those



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