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Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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    #38282
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451100#Comment_122451100

    To be fair, blowing up the negotiator in peace talks isn't something you'd generally expect from a country that's supposedly serious about the peace talks.



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    #38283
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450993#Comment_122450993

    It's not remotely conspiratorial. There's an awful awful lot of academic research into it. I even linked some of it, remember you dismissed out of hand , I assume without actually reading it.

    It was a decision that suited one side and one side only and disregarded some precedents the UN itself had set in it's young existence at the time.

    Trying to claim it conspiratorial is just your way of admitting you don't really have a notion of what you're talking about.

    Israel, like it's neighbours, has never respected the decision either given the annexations and landgrabs since. But that's a different argument.



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    #38284
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,832 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451195#Comment_122451195

    Well with someone like Bibi at the helm he should have. Also the one thing about the Israelis is they follow through on their threats sooner or later

    Hamas have lost senior people before and continued on. I don't think this strike will act as a deterrence. That was never the real intention of it anyway. As you say Bibi isn't serious about peace talks, all he cares about is staying in power.



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    #38285
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users Posts: 45,525 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Hamas will get stronger if anything. I'd say their HR department can't keep up with all the new applicants since October.



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    #38286
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451295#Comment_122451295

    That's my suspicion too. There was no need to do this at this particular point in time. They assassinated a peace talk negotiator, in a separate country.

    I feel Bibi did it because he wants to escalate the situation. This is for two reasons. Firstly he's safe in office as long as the war is ongoing. So keeping the war going is good for him. Secondly he's indebted to the hardliners in the government. this keeps them happy.



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    #38287
    PeggyShippen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭PeggyShippen


    People claiming Haniyeh was a Gerry Adams type guy are correct but the Israelis aren't the British and he got what he deserved . They dont forget what he gave the 'greenlight' for on Oct 7th ..

    BiBi definitely wants the war to continue for whatever reason. It's the right thing to do anyway. It's time to confront Iran plain and simple. This modern day irish left wing whinging of 'give peace a chance ' and 'stop the war" is all bogus. The Left in Ireland and across the world want Hamas to stay in situ. They hate Israel ..substitute 'zionist' for 'jew' and want it to lose . It won't happen.

    The British were genuine in 1948 . Since the Tipperary,Waterford and Wexford men of the Royal Irish regiment under Appleby in WW1 helped liberate Jeruselum the locals had little or no 'Palestinian' out look. They were Arabs ,thats it.The Arabs were given a fine chance of having a country in 48/49 ..similar to the Free State of 1922 which was an opportunity we grasped. They rejected it and would have killed every man woman and Jewish child if they could. They then lost the war of attempted annihilation,badly . The Saudis ,Hashemites ect didn't and don't give a toss about the Palestinians.. never have. They just wanted the Jews gone. It's only in the mid 1950s that the Americans became a serious power superceding the British woth cold hard cash. Hard to know what happens now... For me this opportunity to rid the middle east of Irans power or at least degrade it must be grasped. There's a huge peace deal coming if the Iranians are confronted. The UAE ,Jordan and Saudi Arabia are already allies of Israel in all but name. With Iran degraded the Palestinians can get building Gaza and become realistic .. they ll get offered a large part of the desert near Gaza and that's it...thats the best they ll get after 7th of Octobers atrocity. The west bank will never be part of the end treaty again. It's over for them in the West Bank ..too many bad decisions by their leaders since forever . The best they can hope for is 2 million max being offered Israeli citizenship and a good deal of autonomy there. The settlers will never move or be moved now. Too many if them, too well armed andthe Haredi families are like the Irish families of our grandparents...8 kids average I think

    Support 🇮🇱 Israel



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    #38288
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    If the settlers are not moved, Israel should be blacklisted, sanctioned a d held with utmost contempt. It' says they can do the **** what they want.

    They've been forcefully removing people off their land every year. That should never ever be rewarded.

    Israel is as rogue a state as Iran , just in different ways



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    #38289
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,434 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    How much is down to a lack of leadership in the US, an absent President , different power bases trying to exercise control? are things down to what does China feel about it now?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #38290
    thatsdaft
    Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭thatsdaft


    Another evil fecker on the way to meet the 72 virgin goats

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-01/israel-says-it-s-confirmed-hamas-number-two-deif-was-killed


    cue fake outrage and crocodile tears from Islamist terrorist sympathisers



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    #38291
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451037#Comment_122451037

    I never said anything of the sort regarding the ICJ.



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    #38292
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,832 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451625#Comment_122451625

    Ok then. Fair enough. So what is your opinion on the ICJ rulings?



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    #38293
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    IDF has taken another scalp.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpv3gpy74ydo



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    #38294
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451577#Comment_122451577

    Was always going to happen, Israel are too strong for Hamas. Hamas recently made a deal with the PA so they know the power will be transferred after their eventual destruction



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    #38295
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451266#Comment_122451266

    On July 21, the committee traveled to Lebanon, where they met with Lebanese Prime Minister Riad al-Solh and Foreign Minister Hamid Frangieh, who demanded an end to further Jewish immigration and the establishment of an Arab government in Palestine and claimed that the Zionists had territorial ambitions in Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon. On July 23, the representatives of Arab League states testified before the committee in Sofar. Frangieh told the committee that Jews "illegally" in Palestine would be expelled while the situation of those "legally" in Palestine but without Palestinian citizenship would be resolved by a future Arab government. Efforts by UNSCOP members to get other Arab diplomats to soften their stance failed, with one committee member noting that "there is nothing more extreme than meeting all the representatives of the Arab world in one group... when each one tries to show that he is more extreme than the other."

    The last bit in bold stands out.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Special_Committee_on_Palestine

    It is clear that the Arab leaders would never have accepted Jews living in a future independent Palestine even as early as 1945.

    The effort of the UNSCOP was in effect a 2 state solution, a solution you agree with, ironicly.

    The Zionists played a good hand here, the Arabs refused to soften their stance and didn't play the game. They lost, and they have yet to learn from their mistakes.

    Palestinians have been led terribly for 80 years, it must be said.



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    #38296
    Rezident
    Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭Rezident


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451577#Comment_122451577

    Even the pro-Hamas people in this thread have to admit that technologically, militarily, Israel is incredible. Deif and Haniyeh and Shukr in Gaza and Beirut and Tehran at the same time? If James Bond or Navy Seals did that in a movie it would be too far-fetched. Stunning military victories. Reminds me of the epic 6-day war win.

    Plus the terrorists have stopped using smartphones, they're back to pagers and human couriers and Israel still got all of them. Stunning! It's as if God is on their side.



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    #38297
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451062#Comment_122451062

    If one cannot describe the Arab delegation during the UNSCOP in 1947, as "The Arabs", then what is the acceptable term that one should use?

    As to your last point, it was in effect a 2 state solution. Is that a solution you favour today?



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    #38298
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,832 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451721#Comment_122451721

    Yes. i think the PA leadership are secretly delighted by these strikes while publicity denouncing them.



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    #38299
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451775#Comment_122451775

    And the world in general, Hamas gone, bit of peace in the region should help oil prices stabilise



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    #38300
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451759#Comment_122451759

    I heard a military analyst yesterday talk about the assassination of Haniyeh as a pure embarrassment for Iran. Apparently it was a drone, that was launched outside of Iranian airspace and flew across the country, into the window of the very room Haniyeh was staying in.

    A big military and intelligence failure.

    Someone a day or two ago was talking about Iran 'trolling' Israel into an all-out war. If anyone is trolling it's the Israelis with these precise hits on the leaders of Hamas and Hezbollah.



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    #38301
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,832 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451335#Comment_122451335

    I think you're right. The strikes also show just how weak Iran is. If the Israeli leadership calculated a regional war was likely in response, then they may have opted for a lesser target. The Iranian are snookered now, they have to be seen to respond, but if it's a repeat of what happened previously their threats will be seen as ineffectual.



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    #38302
    Fuascailteoir
    Registered Users Posts: 619 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451759#Comment_122451759

    When you add in the demolition of all civilian infrastructure, the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children, the mutilation of tens of thousands more, the torture and rape of thousands of civilians detained ... It really is something alright



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    #38303
    WEST
    Registered Users Posts: 176 ✭✭WEST


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451577#Comment_122451577

    I don't think anyone will cry over deif, however I don't think this 'win' was worth killing 90 palestinians. Maybe this is me just trying to make sense of the carnage that has occured in Gaza, but anyone that has blindly supported the actions of netanyahu and the IDF the last few months must have some cognitive issues or sociopath tendencies.



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    #38304
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,568 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451739#Comment_122451739

    Can't you actually look at some of the minutes a detailed research yourself instead of Wikipedia

    That article fails to detail how some committee members had in fact made a breakthrough and that a Palestinian delegation was willing to be part of UNSCOp but this was rejected by the US and Israel.

    It's a large part to why the UK abstained. But it you want to be very selective and show again that you only half know what your talking about work away.

    All of this was posted months ago though and you ignored it then too



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    #38305
    Rezident
    Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭Rezident


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451335#Comment_122451335

    Calling the political leader of Hamas a "peace talks negotiator" is like calling Donald Trump a "progressive beacon of unity". Trump mentioned "unity" (briefly) after being shot, but there is rather more to it that that, isn't there?

    Do you believe that Ismail Haniyeh was just an innocent "peace talks negotiator" or do you just say things that are deliberately misleading and biased to suit a radical agenda?

    Would you not rather be balanced and informed? Was the political leader of HAMAS involved in anything other than peace talks, do you think? Or are you told what to think?



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    #38306
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 14,717 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451875#Comment_122451875

    Sounds to me you are cherry-picking bits but ignoring the general strand of what happened.

    The Zionists engaged in the process and lobbied hard for their cause.

    The Arab delegation mostly refused and found the outcome to not to their liking.

    When a decision was made, they then launched a war on the new state of Israel, which they lost.

    They have made strategic error after error for decades, and then one wonders why they are in this position.

    At the end of the day, UN Resolution 181(II) was passed and was an attempt in creating a 2 state solution, a solution you and I agree on. It is a bit rich to talk about the minutes of meetings 80 years ago as some bad attempt to sweep under the carpets all the errors the Arab leaders made since then.



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    #38307
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,121 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451770#Comment_122451770

    Yes, I favour the 2 state solution.



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    #38308
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,830 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    All this stuff about the "Arabs in 1948" is gaslighting nonsense.

    Russia basically invaded Ukraine in 2014 (Crimea + "little green men" in Eastern Ukraine).

    Imagine if, at that time, the so-called world powers, on their own, decided to "do a deal" among themselves by granting what was already occupied by Russians, plus a bit more, to those Russians.

    Ukraine says no. The West backs the Russians and Ukraine gets annihilated in the resulting conflict. The ones remaining are pushed into a small province. Over the following years, The Russians continues to take more of the little bit the Ukrainians were left on. Kill them at will with very little fear of consequence. Manufacture reasons to go periodically to kill a few tens of thousands of them. All backed by the West.

    Then in 2024 we could have had internet warriors posting on boards.ie how it's all the dirty stupid hohol's fault for not accepting the peace deal.



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    #38309
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,832 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122451869#Comment_122451869

    According to the Times of Israel the strike on Dief wouldn't have gone ahead if he was surrounded by Israeli Hostages. When the intelligence confirmed he wasn't the strike was authorised. This is the crux of the problem and pointing it out is not sympathising with Hamas as some previous childish posts would like to suggest. As an adult it's possible to be against both Hamas, and Israel's reckless disregard for Palestinan civilians. Something even their closest ally has criticised them for in the past. I suppose they must also be pro hamas for doing that



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    #38310
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,482 ✭✭✭weisses


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450415#Comment_122450415

    Could you not use the intel you have to take out Good oul Benjamin as well … you know , the sooner it ends the better



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    #38311
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,482 ✭✭✭weisses


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122450993#Comment_122450993

    Yeah but only "after proponents of partition feared that the proposal would not receive the required two-thirds majority and succeeded in delaying the vote for three days, giving more time for the intense lobbying and pressures brought to bear on member states, primarily by Washington and Zionist organizations."



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