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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭thatsdaft


    ”Plans”

    So the actual cost will be 4x if Childrens Hospital is anything to go by

    “Restore a line between Derry and Portadown”

    Ffs so not even spending the taxpayer money in the same country now



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Some stuff in there should have been done ages ago. Does read more of a wish-list than a plan given it mentions "complement the existing plan for a Metrolink".



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    They are dabbing green paint on white elephants. Looking at it, the https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/cc8fc-all-island-strategic-rail-review/ only becomes feasible in the context of reunification of the Republic and Northern Ireland and implementation of steam powered electrical generation using nuclear fission. In order to run a transport network, speed, reliability and cost are key, if you intend substituting diesel with electricity, then the last thing you want to be asked is now a good time to take a journey, since there is no wind blowing or having to calculate the costs due to electrical surge pricing on your journey. The French can have their TGV network, they have the infrastructure to support it. If we start now, nuclear power will take 16 years to deliver, it could be done in 8 years, however there is so much politics and red tape that must be overcome that it would take that long.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,807 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    This is magical thinking. There is no nuclear plant on the market which is (a) economical and (b) suitable for the scale of the Republic of Ireland grid. For this reason there is no chance that even one such plant can be delivered on 2032 (and we would need quite a number). It has nothing to do with politics or red tape as it happens.

    This is all very well rehearsed. Hard to believe we are back to this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Well it won't cost that because it won't happen. It's being announced because an election is coming up. It will go the way of the Metro from the airport.

    Greens will be gone too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Exactly, all Pie in the sky stuff from Govt./Eamon Ryan as usual..by the time any of this actually happens the cost will be €70 billion… and we'll all be long gone..



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    They missed a real opportunity post covid to make a difference to people's lives and the climate. Hybrid Working from home should have become the norm but they created too many employer outs so we are back to mental traffic and people stick in cars etc

    But businesses in Dublin City centre wanted the footfall back. So instead of trying to turn dublin into a vibrant liveable city centre it's traffic choked dump. Some parts are nothing but slums now

    I walk home the 3 days I'm in office. It takes me no longer then the bus would. Often I'm quicker.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Was living close to the Quays during Covid. They should have built a proper continuous river-side bus lane rather than sticking in cycle lanes, but virtue signalling won the day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    A government cannot tell a company they can or can't have their employees in the office or not.

    Public transport has increased since covid, the amount of hybird working has increased

    Everytime the government or DCC tries to shut down a section or reduce traffic in Dublin people go nuts over it. Just review this thread and see all the complaints along with others.

    A cycle lane and more of them is exactly what Dublin needs.

    The biggest issue with bus lanes is cars in them slowing them down. Until bus lane enforcement is in place this will not stop, wait till you see the outcry of grief once the first few thousand people are hit with bus lane fines



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    No they cannot, but they could have do a better job of encouraging companies, who can facilitate WFH without impacting on their ability to conduct their business activities to continue to operate a hybrid policy to reduce the amount of car journeys.

    But instead, let's let the city centre go to ruin and no try and do something positive to create change.

    Irs the same with the rail network. It's all bluster



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    1. Ireland does not currently have spare generation to spare to support expansion to electrical transportation and heating and other industrial purposes at scale anticipated over the next few decades. New generation capacity is needed to supply baseload generation to meet increased demand.
    2. Intermittent, unreliable generation sources such as wind and solar and increasingly inefficient and expensive to manage at grid scale and proposals to build excess turbines in the Atlantic and use electrolysis to convert ultra pure fresh water to hydrogen are so inefficient and expensive, it's viability is questionable even with subsidies all proof of concepts have failed, given this the cost of nuclear is not insane.
    3. The stated intention is to close down and eliminate oil and coal plants from the grid. Gas from Corrib is going to disappear, the Government has scuppered LNG terminals so the only source of gas is via the Moffat line. UKs government is scuppering North sea gas and oil exploration leaving both countries dependent on Norway which also sells gas to the continent. Gas is going to get more expensive. Consumers of gas, oil and coal must also face paying due to ratcheting up carbon taxes. (Thank you Enda Kenny for signing us up to that, we did not ask you to)
    4. Several inter-connectors are being constructed, these mean we can theoretically sell electricity to the UK and France, though in practice, Ireland has such a generation deficit that the flows are mostly going one way, and it's costing us. The inter-connectors provide an expanded market to sell nuclear generated power.
    5. With nuclear reactors the country can satisfy baseload demand, reduce dependency on gas cutting its use to peakers and export surplus generation. Given all the above there is no cheap electricity in the future and warning shots fired due to surging gas prices in 2021-2022, nuclear generation cannot be excluded from the table, the law can be changed. Rolls Royce is making progress on SMRs.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,596 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    A cycle lane for the sake of it is not exactly what anywhere needs, nevermind Dublin with its already narrow streets. There's not much point installing cycle lanes that aren't used. I've seen one in particular at Deansgrange where no bikes went past in 94 minutes before one solitary cyclist used it (around noon and not in the middle of the night). It's as if DLR didn't even measure traffic in advance of chucking it in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    WFH numbers are up since covid. Unfortuneatly a lot of people took the pi** and now companies are bringing people back in because the few just didn't do the workload. But still most people are not returning to a full 5 days so yes Ireland has improved.

    The plan for years has been to send more and more traffic into the city centre and that will make it better. It hasn't worked. So maybe they should shut it totally off.

    Not sure why people are trying to put the issues in city centre and WFH together? they are totally seperate discussion.

    The rail network has improved and the new annoucements will make it improve more.

    The question I would have with the likes of the Navan line why they can't open it now instead of trying to change the line to take in Dunshauglin, which is what the delay is



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭ps200306


    I would add two additional things. First, the idea that the scale of Ireland's electricity demand is too small for nukes is just plain wrong. The nadir in our overnight demand is 3.5 GW. Add a million EVs (which isn't going to happen in my opinion, but it is the plan so let's treat it seriously for a moment). Average mileage of just 25 km/day, recharging mostly overnight in a ten hour window, is an extra load of 600 MW. Allow for modest demand growth (including data centres) and pretty soon you are at 5 GW minimum nighttime demand. That's not a couple of SMRs, it's a fleet of AP-1000 class reactors.

    Second, our plan for grid expansion is falling apart as we watch. We have a chance of connecting new nuclear baseload at a handful of sites. We are showing no signs of being able to connect widely distributed wind and solar the length and breadth of the country and off our coasts.

    With our self-inflicted dearth of natural gas infrastructure, and no sign that a renewable nirvana is feasible, we run a serious risk of being left with nothing.

    From the latest Biz Post ESG briefing (replete with mandatory parroting of renewables vested interests):

    ESG – Electricity grid problems mount

    The issues surrounding Ireland’s electricity infrastructure are beginning to pile up.

    In an interview with our markets correspondent Kathleen Gallagher, Alex O’Cinneide, founder and manager of Gore Street Energy fund, said it was critical that the government make some keys decisions about the prioritisation of grid connections and funding of Eirgrid.

    As a specialist in energy storage projects like grid scale batteries, O’Cinneide warned that grid connections for their projects were taking a long time and were also unpredictable, making for awkward conversations with investors. The government would therefore have to examine how it can prioritise projects for connections, especially if it wants to hit its wider climate targets.

    This comes as Ireland’s power shortage is also beginning to impact on our interconnector trade with the UK. As reported by our UK correspondent Dominic McGrath and myself this week, the UK was warned by an expert group last week that the “tightness” of power supply in the Irish system meant the flow of electricity from Ireland to Britain was less regular than might be expected, despite the potential for complementary wind and sun patterns.

    In other words, Ireland doesn’t have the power to export to the UK, and in fact we imported a record amount of electricity from the UK last year, resulting in a somewhat false suppression of our emissions figures for 2023.

    This all comes following news last week that data centres now account for 21 per cent of our electricity demand. Limits to grid capacity in Dublin will prevent new data centres securing grid connections in that region until a major replacement of wires across the capital is completed by the end of this decade. But in the meantime power demand from this industry will continue to grow apace anyway, due to existing data centres ramping up their power needs, and already contracted data centres connecting up to the grid.

    A comprehensive approach to managing electricity demand and grid capacity from an energy security and climate perspective is clearly needed to manage these issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Wow 94 minutes

    How do you know they are not measuring it? or already have a plan in place?

    Would it be the job of DLR or NTA?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Have to agree with you on that point, it does seem that a lot of the cycle-lanes being constructed with road improvement projects are just put there "For the sake of it"…

    The cycle lanes don't join up with other cycle lanes, they are full of leaves and mud/stones etc, they end abruptly, there's multiple junctions/cycle lane traffic signals/stops impeding progress, they're too narrow to accommodate slow and fast cyclists, there's often van's or lorries parked in them, the design means it's often quicker just to use the road and to avoid people walking in them..and most of all, there's not enough or no cycle lane network in Dublin at all..



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    So you think they should just magic up an entire cycle lane for Dublin overnight?

    Or slowly build them as they go along and long term connect them all together?



  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭thatsdaft


    Don’t forget the datacenters that now use more than homes and are critical to our economy to pay for all these Green elephant projects



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    "Magic up"… don't make me laugh!

    Slowly build them up… Yea again, funny.. I can just picture a multi-decade "join the dots" cycle network.. one day.. by 2050 we'll have a fully connected cycle lane network built to European standards…

    But I will humour you.. here's an example of how building a section of the S2S cycleway took over 25 years: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/how-2km-of-cycle-path-in-clontarf-became-a-25-year-saga-1.3073256



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The number of DCs in Ireland is low compared to other countries in the EU.

    They do provide valuable jobs. You are complaining about DCs on a website which is running in a DC. 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,867 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    I picked out one example of how complicated it is to build a section of cycle lane… It's not an "attitude" it's a fact.. look at the link…

    Linking to some plan "Strategy 2022-2042" so what is it you're trying to prove? That the cycle network will be complete in 18 years time… amazing, I'll stop "complaining" so for another 18 years 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭thatsdaft


    I ain’t complaining, the crusade against datacenters is yet another stupid Green policy in a long line of stupid Green policies

    I pointed out our industrial electricity needs are growing and the silly argument a poster made against nuclear, is just that, silly



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,807 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    The first four paragraphs are very interesting. But none of them is really relevant.

    There is no viable nuclear plant (both suitable and economic) for Ireland on the market.

    This is more pie in the sky. Rolls Royce has not actually built an SMR. It won't have a demonstrator until 2030 at the earliest. There is no chance that they could deliver a unit onto the Irish grid in 2032.

    There will be no way to know whether the RR SMR is economic to build and run until the mid-2030s at the earliest.

    No one is excluding anything from the table. You are just proposing something that is totally unrealistic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,807 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    The AP1000 is not a suitable plant for an island grid with a trough 5 GW demand. The manufacturer and the IAEA will tell you that all day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Finland has the same population as Ireland and consumes over twice the electricity. Last year their Olkiluoto 3 nuclear plant went on line, and as well as making them self sufficient in electricity for the first time is providing 14% of their needs. Over 30% of our current needs. Even being years late and over budget it cost €11Bn.

    We have an offshore/hydrogen 2050 plan for 37 GW where the offshore capital costs alone are €200 Bn. that will still see us short by 4 GW of our projected demand by 2050, which rather than see us carbon neutral by 2050 will have us with the same emissions we have now.

    As a poster here said some time ago. Pick your poison, it`s either fossil fuels or nuclear.



  • Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭thatsdaft


    You are under the mistake assumption that Irish Greens and environmentalists actually care about climate change and CO2 reduction

    They do not

    It’s a place for disillusioned far left authoritarians to coalesce around as existing parties don’t fit their daft ideas which are all about social engineering and more taxes on everything, sprinkled with a quasi religious belief in the apocalypse crossbred with Luddite fears of science and technology

    But don’t take my word for it, the following pictures speak for themselves

    And my favourite, 6.5 GW of installed wind doing next to nothing yet again



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,152 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I have no illusions about the Irish Green Party whatsoever. They are magic money tree thinkers that are so inept they cannot even put a price on their own daft ideas when challenged.

    They are either numerically illiterate or they know how daft their ideas are but refuse to admit it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Any information to back this up? or just an opinion of your own?

    In terms of fears of science and technology, wouldn't wind and most renewable energies fit into the category? electric cars?



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