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Can Sinn Fein fix the housing crisis or is it beyond them or anybody else?

2456718

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    would sf stoop this low ?

    your kidding right ? we still haven't found all the bodies from sfs low stooping



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,294 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    See that 'Government Department' bit? Devolved powers cannot be compared to full powers. Please stop treating people as idiots and at least try to properly understand the constraints on each of those 'departments'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,279 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    I'm really not sure that "Arra they can't be any worse than the current shower" is a compelling or sensible reason to vote for anyone. The stark reality is that they can and most likely will be worse.

    SF (and AAA/PBP etc.) are a professional opposition party with no economic policy other than "Moar taxes on people our voter base don't like". I'm not even particularly sure they want to be the majority, party, tbh. "Blame the government" has been their narrative and manifesto for pretty much their entire existence - what happens to that when you *are* the Government???

    It suits them to be in opposition, tbh. Much easier to point the finger and throw soundbites out than actually govern.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Given that step 1 is stop the ridiculous levels of immigration, the answer is no.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 72,294 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Loads of people still doing that. Members of my family are. Set back a few years now with the crazy prices of materials.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,321 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    It cost just short of 2.5 times my salary at the time. It took me 15 months to save the 1700 deposit. When I paid the mortgage off, 20 years later, I asked the bank if I had come in the following day and wanted to borrow to buy my house would they give me a loan. They said no. By then it was probably worth about 6 times my salary, though it had been worth more at the height of the madness.

    Now it is worth about 34 times my income, but my income is a good bit under 20k, so that distorts things somewhat.

    *On a side note, the nonsense I had to put up with ( 'Oh but you might meet a nice man') to get a mortgage in my own name in the 80s was ridiculous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,027 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    so 34 times your sub 20k income, so probably 10 times the industrial average..... It might not be a mentality issue.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Same here with the added complication of being what was then called a “deserted” wife! My house was also 2.5 times my salary. No bathroom. Toilet outside in a shed. Over the last 40odd years, a bathroom and kitchen were built on. Double glazing, central heating, new roof, insulation and dry lining. All done as funds allowed. At retirement, it was worth 7 times my salary. But, it’s value is irrelevant. It is my home and I’m so glad to own it outright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    We have to be weened off renting and buying. It will be a slow process. FF/FG have put us in the position were we need to rent and buy because they never seriously started to prepare to move us away from it. Much in the way they took other emergency items such as hotels and b&bs and made them part of the regular system. A colossal waste of tax payer money and all to feed the private industry of investors.

    I would make it that they sell off or give away any property investment interests while we are deemed to be in crisis. They cannot be trusted to make the right decision for the tax payer due to conflict of interest. If you want to be a property investor, you can't be a TD. This would include any funds engaged in it.

    Property investment companies aren't flooding into Ireland to help us out.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Weaned off renting and buying and onto what, exactly?

    The answer is going to be council housing, isn't it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Of course it can be fixed. The tax payer needs to pay alot more tax to build free houses for those who dont want to work or cant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    We can lease luxury apartments for 25 years with no option to buy, rent and purchase off the private market or build and own our own.

    Same people living in them either way.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,391 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Mod - Thread is going way off topic. Let's stick to the housing crisis and there is no need to bring FF/FG into it unless it's in direct relation to their policies and responses to the housing crisis

    This is not another SF vs Govt mud slinging thread



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,058 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    I did the same in 2001 ,couldn't afford a house in Dublin ,took out a small mortgage ,endured 5 hours a day car commute up and down to Dublin from very rural Laois for 4 years ,actually my cottage so bad I put a mobile home on the site for 3 years. I recall some smart arse on Boards laughing at such a notion of what we did back then, but now I can look out at a beautiful garden from a humble home with a few years left on the mortgage. Tough yes for the first few years but worth it in the end .

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    By "we" you mean the state can. No thanks Rich Boy Barrett



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭dasa29


    I see everybody here calling for more housing but according to the "Summary of Social Housing Assessments 2021" the number on the housing list is 59,247 (Sep 21) (Social Housing Transfer list(including Hap, Ras, etc.) not included in total.)

    the difference between 2020 and 2021 housing list is as follows

    2020: 61880

    2021: 59247

    +/-: -2633

    Now while that seems good it is not given that only 12 Household Compositions were down out of 13 household compositions with the thirteenth up 347. That thirteenth Household Composition was 1 Adult Household with 32551 or 54.9% of the total looking for social housing in 2021.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    During covid when there was the rent and eviction freeze?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    They will tell you after they figure out what the popular view is, then change it if that view changes

    That’s the Sinn Fein way, whatever way the wind blows Sinn Fein goes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Plenty of people doing that with renovation jobs and to be honest I love it, I love seeing old houses brought back to life. Difference is these people don’t bother sitting on the web , they don’t see the point of creating loads of fake accounts on social media to complain about everyone and everything.

    A lot of people try to tell you that section of society is now gone and nobody can buy a house anymore, but we know it’s rubbish.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    SF are telling everyone what they want to hear, if you sit and try add it all up it will never work. According to them they are going to tax the rich, while at the same time telling the rich they will never do that

    High earners will pay more tax while telling them they will get a tax reduction by removing property tax

    Going to hire more doctors while telling the doctors they are going to tax them at a higher rate so they will have less income???

    Thats just the start of the problem with SF and their policies. Within 12 if they try to implement we will be sitting with the entire country back in 2008 and Europe bailing us out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭dasa29


    While you could be partly right I went back and looked at the "Summary of Social Housing Assessments 2020" and it has this

    2019: 68,693

    2020: 61880 (-6813 on 2019 total)

    2021: 59247 (-2633 on 2020 total) From "Summary of Social Housing Assessments 2021"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,398 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    what you mean is build subsidized houses for those that due to income, can't afford to house themselves in the private rental market or via a bank loan which they would not be approved for.

    there are no such thing as free houses in ireland and the amount of people who don't actually want to work are so tiny and they are not wanted by employers under any circumstance anyway, that they are irrelevant to the discussion really.

    but they allow you to deflect from a genuine issue no doubt because "ja lefties" or some other bs.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Lose the immigrants and the vulture funds then watch as house prices miraculously go down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Sinn Fein have played the classic Trump/Johnson card of populism. They have simply promised to much.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    How will they house another 50,000 refugees?

    Where will they get civil engineers and tradesmen? Their supporters on Twitter regularly call engineers scum and bizarrely claim you dont need them!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Someone on the average wage in Ireland (never mind the average for a younger person) who saves literally every penny after paying rent and food is likely going to be further away from being able to afford a house after a year then they were at the start due to inflation in prices. The idea it is “attitude” that cause the problem is as offensive as it is hilariously wrong.

    one core element of the problem is that there is No way of solving it that doesn’t impact the massive portion of society that are already homeowners. The dreaded “negative equity” will be bandied around as soon as house prices come off, objections to any density in new developments abound. Fixing the housing crisis involves sacrifice from homeowners (Insomuch as the value of your house matters a damn) and it is not forthcoming. SF can fix it but nothing they do at local level suggest they will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    I recall all the numbers across the board 'improved' due to less people being evicted or landlords selling up or raising rents. And the decline returned as we came out of covid.

    We, the state, are the reason the investment funds are flocking here. If we barred them the housing builds would almost stop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    wouldn't your plan for property investors not being in government disqualify sf as a whole given the amount of property it owns ? 😁😁😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭Dangel4x4


    Blame the immigrants for the housing problem. Classy.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,189 ✭✭✭Brucie Bonus


    So be it. Its a conflict of interest during a crisis. All politicians should sell up or give away all property interests before taking office. Their immediate family too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    good luck with that , even the average industrial wage lie didn't last long with the shinners



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    Posters here dont seem to get that if you are one of the 300,000 young workers forced to live at home due to housing then job growth and the economy mean nothing to you. I was unemployed during covid and it mean no big difference. Im at home working 2 jobs trying to save a deposit, and at that I'll be forced to move county. Id be cheering an economic collapse to collapse house prices.

    Its the desperation and the massive intergenerational inequality that has caused these views and FFG wont do anything to stop that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,189 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Weened off renting and buying means the state doing all the building.

    And whenever that gets tried, the cost per unit goes up due to the inefficiencies of state bodies while everyone creams off the proceeds (which is unlikely to happen due to fiscal policy constraints of being in the euro-zone).

    But anyway, SF get a 4-5 year term, by the end, of it, what % of council housing funds are spent on buying rather than leasing/renting? What happens if the demand for housing continues to grow, how do you make the numbers work? What does success look like for SF and what does failure look like?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    Personally, if at the end of a SF term I had a letter saying I had an apartment in a cost rental/ public housing development once it is completed in x amount of years Id vote them back in

    Id likely vote them back in anyway given how FFG forced me to emigrate to England a decade ago after college and refused to help house me when I got a job in Ireland again



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Stop letting the population increase at too fast a rate to keep up with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,493 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    I cannot fathom why it is so difficult and time consuming to buy and sell property.

    Pop on over to the property forums and its endless issues with conveyancing, paperwork problems, bank problems, EA problem etc etc.


    If the process was streamlined we'd at least get more mobility and movement in the property market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    because, the reality is FFG dont want house prices to fall



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They'll sort it,they have invested a lot of political capital in it,so this are bound to it,fcuk sake state on its knees in the 50s and we could do it....none of this economic progress was worth it since,if we can't house/educate our people anymore




    Personally speaking,I'd sooner see emergence of large scale social housing estates....than see another generation being raised in hotel rooms,it's a scandal that it's been let drag on so long



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,974 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay



    It's SF that are objecting to the exact type of housing that you are seeking.

    The vote against the Oscar Traynor Road development is proof of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    A house is a huge investment for the person, the seller, the bank etc

    Lots of houses get bought and sold very easily, of course some take longer and that’s the ones you hear about, not about the quick ones


    At the moment the issue is supply, the amount of projects rejected or spend years in court before they finally get approvals they should have got in first place is the delay

    We Ned to streamline the planning process, also stop the ability of political parties to block housing and make sure these mindless rejections are stopped. Like I seen apartments been held up because someone is saying it will cast a shadow on their house in the morning 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,058 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Meant to share this earlier, particularly in the context of FFG policies encouraging rental rather than home ownership.

    Just look at the salaries folks wlll need to be considered, with cuckoo funds doing affordability checks, god bless them.

    Whilst HAP tenants not likely to be considered, can folks imagine what that would be 😳


    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Housing99


    Oscar Traynor is private developers building on public lands. Public lands should only be used for public housing built by the state. The 60,000 households on hap who should be in public housing attests to that



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Maybe, just maybe Sinn Fein are the most popular because they spew out so much populist bullsh!t??

    I would vote for them if I believed that they could deliver ¼ of what they promise while reducing income tax for those on less than €100,000 and borrow nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,974 ✭✭✭✭Ha Long Bay



    Just a reminder of the scheme that SF voted against.


    Almost eight years after plans for the site were first mooted, a revised proposal by developers Glenveagh was approved at a meeting of Dublin City Council last night.


    Councilors voted 36-23 in favour of the controversial development, with three Labour councilors breaking party ranks to oppose the deal.

    Sinn Féin, People Before Profit, the Social Democrats and a number of Independents all voted against the plan, which was supported by Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, the Green Party and most Labour councilors.


    The vote comes one year after councilors overwhelmingly rejected Glenveagh’s plans to develop the Dublin City Council owned site, which would have seen 50pc of homes sold privately.


    An alternative plan proposed that the entire scheme be developed by the local authority, with 80pc used for social/cost rental and 20pc designated for affordable housing.





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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    As I said on other thread

    its not a shock that different houses and apartments have different rents. That was always the case!!! Always will be


    Look what Sinn Fein do for renters


    https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ni-wide-10-rent-cut-halted-after-sinn-fein-u-turns-to-vote-down-proposal-41420034.html



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,267 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    SF have no track record in being of the ability to solve problems like this.

    one issue facing them is supply vs demand… yet here is an avidly pro immigration party…. Wishing to multiply the demand. This before they have the first clue about sorting the supply.. for the ‘current’ population.

    so we need more social housing, NOW… yet Sinn Fein want hundreds of thousands more people allowed here to compete with taxpayers for what little housing there is and will be….



  • Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You'd end up with another odevaney garden farce.....using state land to funnel houses to forgien investment funds to fleece money off Irish workers and export it out of economy,


    Eamonn devalera saw through the fallacy of sending money to forgien landlords 90 years ago,and pulled the plug on it,why would you use state land to repeat mistakes of 100 years ago?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Subzero3


    Yes they can fix it.

    Sorry I can't be critical of the government (who are responsible) as they have plenty of behind the scenes defenders silencing dissenting voices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭brokenangel


    Sinn Fein don’t know what they want, it’s the flip flop party.

    Thry just tell people what they want to hear and know they will never have to deliver, even their supporters are starting discussion like this more or less saying Sinn Fein will fail at housing if they get into government because of the current government.

    Sinn Fein and supporters already realise they have no idea how to fix any problems, especially housing which they have helped to create, so get in early excuses and then say “I told you so”

    Incorrect, housing for everyone in Ireland.

    Do you honestly think that people who are working and paying tax are not entitled to buy a house/apartment in Oscar Traynor development?



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