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Waterford North Quays

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭914


    I think we all know how this goes. Harcourt will use the full 6 months. I feel like the closer we get the further away we are from seeing cranes on site.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭Bards


    I would prefer the council takes it's time to get the right development rather than jump at the first plan over the line.. Remember, we have to live with this development for the next 100 years or so



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭914




  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Valhalla90


    I’m struggling to find the last upload on the link! Sorry if it’s obvious



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭Bards


    Sort by scanned order not alphabetical and it's the last file



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  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Valhalla90




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭Asdfgh2020


    6 months to go so……how likely is it that the developer will now ‘walk’…..24 pages in the ‘further Information’ letter…….did a quick scan of it and I’d say they will need the full six months to gather it all……might be the ‘straw that brakes the camels back’



  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Valhalla90


    In fairness to the council they are not happy with the tower element and require a more dominant structure. It should be on the edge next to the river not right at the back of the site by the train line. A lot of further information is about the tower and the apart hotel.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭914


    And tbf, a lot here (including me) were also concerned about this about it not being ambitious enough.

    I resigned myself to the fact that the initial plan made sense in the current climate but great to see the council are in favour of something ambitious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    God you're gagging for failure.Give it a rest.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭Bards


    Here is the News and Star article giving a summary of the 24 page document outlining what has been said here

    https://www.waterford-news.ie/news/north-quays-on-hold-due-to-further-information-request_arid-27275.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭914


    I was just about to share this particular part in regards the hotel.

    "Waterford Council have outlined that the design of this building is considered too light and given its nodal location within the North Quays adjoining the central plaza, the design requires further consideration. The applicant has therefore been invited to address this concern by submitting revised plans for a more dominant/commanding design."

    I think very few of us would disagree with the councils view point here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Kilkenny36


    This restores a little bit of faith in the council. Rather than trying to appease a developer they are telling them what they want for the area. I would rather the north quays lie vacant for another 10 years rather than build another railway square. This needs an iconic building at the centre point. Even something like the building in Heuston South quarter in Dublin would be somewhat landmark looking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 42 Kilkenny36


    Imagine if our leaders had a real vision. Apartments could look like this. Build in a city of 60k people in Denmark

    People would come to see it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭Bards


    If you read the report in its entirety you will see that harcourt hardly set foot in Waterford before designing their proposed development, there is a jibe at this towards the end of the report .. They even had the audacity to use air quality readings from Portlaoise and Carlow instead of local air monitoring stations..

    It begs the question as to what they have actually been doing for the last 2 years and are they the developers to actually deliver a project of substance for Waterford



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭914


    Great images @Kilkenny36 I even like something like the below (colonge) it would be a throw back to cranes that pre existed on the site, a nod of the cap to our port days

    Or the riverside museum in Glasgow, it could be shaped to reflect the South Quays.

    The site definately craves some sort of imagination



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,550 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    Would 'they' be brave enough to design , and then build that ?

    Imagine… That would look stunning on that river side imo ….. Brave, Ambitious , Iconic ?

    Instead of dull unimaginative concrete blocks …..

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... " #NoPopcorn



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭914


    I think the developer would need to be in it for a architecture point of view more so than the profit that can be made.

    If Waterford was an iconic city it would be easier.

    Maybe develop one building that is iconic and serves a purpose, an iconic unique hotel, make your buck from that then one apartment block, again iconic and in time everything developed there becomes iconic, rather than initially just maximising profit which is what I feel the initial plan was, which I get developers exist to make profit, we probably need some local person involved who would be pushing for something iconic as if the architect, Developer is all based outside of Waterford all is in it for them is profit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭Bards


    I believe the owner of harcourt development is a Waterford man, make of that what you will



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Dunmoreroader


    The owner, Pat Doherty, is from Donegal. Their Director of Sales, Pat Power, is from Waterford.

    If this ends up looking like a pig in a poke, it won't reflect well on bigshot TV celebrity architect Hugh Wallace.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Dunmoreroader


    Mixing up my metaphors; of course WCCC didn't accept the pig in a poke, now Harcourt have try and turn the pigs ear into a silk purse!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭south


    Deleted



  • Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭curmudgeonly


    Those concept ideas are beautiful, but we need to get real. there is No banking available in ireland for any type of construction from any of the pillar banks atm, None. Any construction is being done on private financing at a minimum rate of 10% and that is for the elite blue chip developers that are far and few between, maybe o flynns of Cork .

    So the days of vanity projects are gone in Ireland never mind in a blue collar backwater like Waterford.

    That is the sad and sorry truth of it and lots of your well known local developers are paying a margin closer to 20% !



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    You are appropriately named. You may be right, but may also be wrong.

    I am equally certain that the North Quays will be developed, if only for hotel use and apartments, sooner rather than later, simply because its a good site for both and population growth will drive it. I have lived a long time in Waterford listening to people saying with certainty that so and so will never happen (I heard it about motorway to Dublin? Second River crossing? City Bypass? Outer Ring Road? New Court House? Second Cath lab? Radiotherapy and private hospital? etc,etc) and then lo and behold, they happen. Despite your social analysis, the place has changed dramatically in the past 20 years. Consider, you and your analysis may be stuck in the social milieu you describe?

    Did you ever think that 7million would be spent on restoring the old Men's Hostel in Lady Lane, in accordance with new Bauhaus aesthetic standards?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,645 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …we probably need our own development bank similar to countries such as germany, kfw etc, probably wont ever happen though….



  • Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭curmudgeonly


    You misunderstand me, I do believe it will be developed, just not to the aesthetic we would all love to see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,217 ✭✭✭Junior




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,645 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …not necessarily no, a public development bank is a very different kind of beast, as is the case of kfw in germany and the Scottish national investment bank, these are fully controlled by the state, and can be heavily protected under constitutional law, as is the case with the germany public banks. if properly designed and managed, they can play critical roles in doing their job of long term investment projects, they tend not to get involved in high risk activities such as derivatives trading etc, such as what anglo got involved in, some do of course, but at least theres a public method of controlling outcomes. anglo was also effectively a floated company, a public bank is just that, a state owned bank, of course there are state risks involved in such an entity, but id rather be bailing out a public bank over a private one, as we ve seen, we bailed them out, and virtually nothing has changed, no accountability, record bonuses post crash, the list goes on and on…

    .i.e, your kids and grandkids are effectively screwed cause of this, it gives them virtually no power in trying to resolve their issues, and as you can see, the whole sector went back to doing what it does best, inflating the price of assets such as property etc, but in saying that, some well run public banks we re required to be bailed out due to the complexities of the crash…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,217 ✭✭✭Junior




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,645 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    …but the reality is, the previous banking crash has completely turned the public off the topic, and rightfully so, but this will happen again, we need to try reduce its effects, and methods such as those mentioned, might just do that, but theres no public will to investigate, so we re destined for it again unfortunately…..



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