Slow Play again

the only solution is course rangers, not very practical though

Slow play, divots and pitch marks are always problems. It's rare to have a comp less than 4h15m in a 4ball in my local. 4h30m is slow but relatively normal for a medal when balls are going astray.

I don't think there's anything you can do but keep reminding members through emails, signs and taking individual ownership. The onus is on members to police it themselves within whatever groups they land in. When I say police I mean encourage better behaviour.

There was a funny car park argument between two senior golfers not too long ago in my club. One told the other (who was one group ahead) quite plainly that he was slow and needed to pick up the pace (post round). He took umbrage to the accusation and kicked off. There wasn't anything physical but it got testy. Easy to see it happen with some personalities. Both lads are decent tbf just proud of their convictions.

If you take on a discussion like this with some individuals during a round/comp you can be made out to be at mind games or putting someone off. Similar to the barny in the previous paragraph, people generally avoid confrontations where possible. I keep it as simple as saying we've lost a hole or 1/2 a hole on the group ahead and need to move along or step aside for the next group.

Reading greens like DJ/Berger or a million Harman pre-shot waggles is clearly a pain in the hole but it's rare.

However, I disagree entirely with your take on rangefinders - it takes about 3s to grab a laser and tag the flag. Add 1-2s more if you zap a bunker etc. If anyone has a GPS watch/cart it's the same story and not all clubs have colour-coded Front/Middle/Back flags. Amateur golfers won't hit the ball flush 100% of the time and you guessed it… They'll often end up short. I'm very much in the camp of letting someone take a couple of seconds extra to lock in a committed shot. They're far less likely to rush the strike into cabbage and slow up play... if you wanted to stand over everyone with a stopwatch they.

The biggest time wasters are simple and some are easy to speed up: Talking and not being ready > leaving clubs in the wrong place > marking cards standing on a green after putting > and ridiculous ceremonial pre-shot routines. Rangefinders/GPS are not even in the ball park.

WHS definitely an extra contributor to the problem.

Old system, with a cap of 28 shots meant even the worst golfers were picking up a little earlier.

Now people with in some cases 3 shots on holes.

4-balls are part of the problem, my place plays 3-balls in all singles comps at the weekends, and would be rare for a medal to go beyond a 4hr round, even when playing with someone shooting 110+

Agree that common sense stuff is actually a big part of it. Ready golf, play a little out of sequence if needed. Hit your shot, then help your partner look for a ball. Park in the right spots at the green. No need to stand on the green and take the card out to mark it straight away, you can get to the next tee box and do it.

One thing I do that helps is I have laser and GPS. If I've hit it further than playing partners and can't go to my ball. I'll laser from their spot and move the flag on the green on my GPS to that distance so when I get to my ball, I can just quickly check the GPS and its already showing the correct distance.

My biggest bug-bear these days isn't so much around pace as it is around maintenance. Pitch mark repairs, yes, but my place seems to have gone ridiculous for people not raking bunkers when they're done, it's infuriating.

I'm quite lucky that by default our course has people go out in 3 balls unless the competition format requires 4 balls. 4 hours would be a long round at mine, 3:30 is generally achievable. Playing in other courses where it takes 4+ hours feels like torture to me to be honest. I don't know how people would do it week in week out.

2 hour 25 for 9 holes today .

Crazy stuff, I know summer golfers out and rough is up.

I was kinda watching everything...lads genuinely on their summer holidays ..not in any rush

But Look, maybe they are right and will have a long happy life.

Summer golf just has a different vibe...

I think 4 balls can be main issue

Then leaving bag at far side of green (easy fix)

and people looking for balls (nobody I see abides by 3 minute rule here!

I agree with Fix, us Irish take are golf way to seriously!

In principal I agree with that sentiment. I think there is an overdoing this 'slow play' agitation thing. You're there to play a ball game and enjoy being outdoors and not try to find fault over every little thing. Some people act like they cant get quick enough off the course. In some cases I suspect thats actually true. As in can't wait to get to the 19th. ;)

But if you're permanently waiting, thinking what are those people in front of us doing?, then it can be become a nuisance quickly.

There is a good middle ground.

I agree there's definitely a middle ground alright, I suppose finding it is the issue ! Personally, I think 4hr 40m is totally off the wall, literally no excuse for it. I get that there's a bigger picture and we're talking about 1st world problems, but I can't see why sub 4hrs isn't easily achievable almost all the time. Its not like that's particularly quick or that anyone would have to "rush" to get round in under 4hrs.

There's also perception too I find. I've had rounds that have felt like we casually strolled around, totally taking our time and it was 3hr 15m or something, and I've had rounds that were close to 4h and felt like we were moving well. Even how you're playing will impact on how you feel about the pace of play.

Lads who's drives went 230 yards waiting on the green to clear even though they're 350 yards out.

I see a lot of the issue is that groups that have lost ground on the group in front of them simply do not take action to pick up the pace.
"Eh, we've fallen behind lads and need to pick it up" - Ignored!

A big issue for golf post covid and in the general economy.

People are living lives of pleasure and have nowhere to go in reality..

Golf is still dominated by 4 balls..invitationals and senior events.

And you know what , fair play to them .

But how is that compatible with growing the game and having a younger wider golfer profile.

Was out with a guy who is new to the game and from a GAA background with a young family.

To see the realisation in him that between getting to club early say 20 mins before, as required ..a 2.5 hr 9 hole and the travelling to course it was all going ro take 3.5 hours...he was just having a big moment with his golf relationship.

I know there are people here who want a slow life and head in clouds.

But that is off the wall stuff.

There might have to be lifestyle part of the timesheet. Just 2 hours ..3 balls ..People who know how to get around a course...

And let the men of leasure have their Roman lifestyles .

Men of leisure..Roman lifestyles..dont know too many of them.

All the above posts contain key ways to speed up..trolleys in right area..mark card while waiting to tee off..etc.

Stuff that has been done for years.

All comes down to one thing..Respect for others on the course.

Not being so selfish..is selfish a modern trait I wonder?

Looking at all the comments here there is only one focus, which is on player behaviour, however there are multiple reasons behind slow play so multiple solutions are required.

The main reason behind slow play is the number of golfers on the golf course, too many people on the golf course means slow play no matter what else is happening. The way to regulate it is how far the tee times are apart, a minimum of 8 minutes for 2 balls, 10 minutes for 3 balls and 12 minutes for 4 balls, the group in front should be putting out or finished on a medium length par 4 before the group behind plays. The perfect example of this was the tee time spread in covid, golfers were flying around the course with no one in front of them. The problem is that golfers focus on when they start, rather than when they finish so courses go back to too little times between groups. What's better teeing off at 10:00 and finishing at 2:30 or teeing off at 10:30 and finishing at 2:30?

The other reasons are player behaviour, which everyone talks about but no one does anything about, set up of the course, i.e. long rough, difficult hole locations, fast greens, long walks between greens and tees and finally player ability, poorer players take longer from tee to green, better players take longer on the greens.

The solutions to slow play are, increase tee time intervals, don't have long rough, don't have the greens too fast, set an expected time for the course, which will vary from course to course, and educate players. Educating players means talking to the individuals who are slow, tell them the reasons why they are slow and warning them to speed up. Funnily enough, tell a fast player they are behind and they will catch up, tell a slow player they're behind and they will argue they aren't slow.

The information is out there to speed up play, it's not difficult to find, nor implement, however clubs aren't great at finding solutions and I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting on clubs to solve this any time soon.

We have signs telling you that you should be here as a 4ball, 3ball etc in X amount of time. They pass no heed to them.

I think you've actually hit the nail on the head, the slow guys simply just don't give a f—k. The default mindset is its golf, it takes a long time, you're out for the day anyway etc etc.

Thinking about it though, there could be a downside to those signs and targets if the target is too easily achievable. You'd potentially have guys thinking anything goes as long as they're within the time limits. I know as a junior I was always told your place on the course is immediately behind the group in front of you, not immediately in front of the group behind you.

For such a simple problem its also complicated. For example yesterday we played early in one of the first few groups out. There was a group in front of us who normally play mid-morning and wouldn't be thought of, and aren't, slow players. Yet we had to wait on almost every tee and a lot of second shots. Not long to be fair and it wasn't a big deal at all. The round felt a lot longer than normal and felt very slow, but when I ended the round on my Shotscope it was 3hrs 57m for a fourball, so in reality it wasn't really that slow a round at all. Probably about 15 mins longer than most weeks, yet the perception of that extra say, minute, per hole, was that it took ages. Admitedly we were playing rubbish and spent a lot of time looking for balls, so it gave some breathing space for us not to be right on top of the guys ahead. That group in front of us lost almost 3 holes on the group in front of them, so were they slow ? Under 4 hours says no, but losing 2/3 holes maybe suggests arguably.

Bottom line, the will isn't there to solve it. Nobody is going to fall out with someone they may be quite friendly with over 15 minutes on the course.

I'd imagine Boards GS would be happy to be guinea pigs for you @Golfgraffix if it would help with building data, etc...

I think this fair enough.

But it is regular enough for 3 lads to hit and a slow type player be at their ball ..even away from.ball no even club in hand . Then they start their distance thing just then..

Same on greens ..guys standing miles from ball and start reading after he is ready . Then there are times nobody is doing literally anything..you literally have to tell.them they are up or need to do **** something...

Then the perpetua last to hit off tee lad. Doesn't even have a driver out.

Even after everyone has gone.

Then slow walk lads that drop say 70 yards behind just walking 250 yards.

What use are they to anyone..particularly a 4 ball.

Don't get me started on daft routines...

Yes I think everyone should be doing the simple things as you say, bags correct side of the green, not marking cards on the green, making an effort to get to your ball quickly etc. it’s more the expectation of top speed throughout a round I was getting at.

I play with lots of auld guys as you say ....but they are an absolute credit to themselves.

Know how to get around a golf course ..have experience and wisdom. No daft routines , And certainly are not miles from.their ball with no club..

Likes of aimpount , they wouldn't tolerate..

And they also call each other out and it doesn't turn into ...how dare you question me and I'm "entitled " to spend as long as I like here ..because I'm important..and my time is my special time...**** everyone else...

Any time I play with them..it is 4 hours for 4 balls over 18.

This idea that golf should ever be over 4 hours , is a pure modern creation of entitlement.