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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It may be at the centre of his dispute , but his actions have meant that that substantive issue has never once been formally addressed.

    He did indeed send some emails and have a meeting with his boss , but what he did not do was lodge a formal grievance which would have initiated a whole process to review the issue and arrive at a conclusion.

    Instead he chose to disrupt the school event and then ignore the formal disciplinary process (which he would have signed up to when he accepted the post) and ended up where we are today.

    Following those emails/meetings he could have chosen open a formal grievance with the Dept. and followed the road there.

    He could even have acknowledged the suspension and disciplinary process that followed and used that formal process to have his position reviewed , but he didn't.

    He simply decided "I'm right , everyone else is wrong, I'm just going to do exactly what I want and that's that".

    Everything that has happened to Enoch Burke is as a direct result of his belligerent refusal to acknowledge the existence of any rules and laws that he does not like.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Agreed on first sentence: His legal issues of his presence at the school are with the courts as he was not complying with court orders to stay away and from the school and inform the court that he would comply with it's orders, in line with his train of thoughts of obedience to a higher edict, as he sees it.

    On the UK court ruling, debate and feedback on the possibility about similar being applied here to solve the problem he created for the teaching profession here with his adherence to a higher authority over the rules used by the profession was why I posted mention of the UK COURT RULING.

    Post edited by aloyisious on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Why didn't Burke kick up a storm the first time he received a request from his employer in relation to a non-binary student?

    Because this child wasn't the first time he'd received such a request. There was a previous one six months earlier in Dec 2021, in relation to a different student, so why didn't he kick off then?

    He planned this. His actions in June 2022 at the school's public event was deliberate. He knew what he was doing.

    At this point, three different high court justices have made it clear this case has to do with Burke's behaviour, and has nothing to do with transgender or use of pronouns.

    And all this, including the case of the UK teacher - who made a target of a student and misgendered them deliberately and in the classroom in front of other students - has been covered in the thread, multiple times.

    Even I'm getting bored repeating it now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Oh yes. It seems all he did and has done has [allegedly] been in line with what he apparently sees as an obligation to a non-human edict. Render unto God etc etc….



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Yeah, the court report mentioned that he didn't voice opposition in the case of the first instance when a similar request was made to the teachers there. He picks and chooses which argument approach he will use as things accelerate.

    Edit: I hadn't known the UK teacher case was discussed before - as in the same way that the Burke saga has been - thought it was only finalized and mentioned in the papers over the past few days.

    Post edited by aloyisious on


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,167 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    What you're doing here is trying to find reason in the situation but you're forgetting you're dealing with a very unreasonable person.

    There are many far better ways Enoch could have handled this, one's where he could have actually won his case. Instead he chose one of maximum aggression and unreasonableness which leaves him with no chance of winning his case.

    Post edited by CatFromHue on


  • Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    That is a very good way of putting things— teaching young people, along with so many other people-centred jobs and societal roles, involves surrendering some small elements of your own personal preferences and choices so as to allow for 'reasonable' interaction and ultimately for the work to get done. This can be annoying and frustrating at times but its necessary to avoid a chaotic workplace/society where everyone thinks they can have everything their own way, and no other. I think it's reasonable to consider the issue of pronouns and gender identity these days, frustrating or silly as it might sound to some, without losing your sh1t in public and attacking your boss and protesting like a loon in the corridor. No proper teacher shoul behave that way. Thus, it's the school leadership, the School Board and Dept protocols/circulars that determine how a school is run/managed, not individuals with personal convictions and exhortations to an Almighty God etc etc,

    Enoch and his family are utterly unreasonable and intransigent religious fanatics and their behaviour, never mind their beliefs, is what has them in these situations. And as a parent, I would not want these utterly unreasonable and intransigent individuals teaching my children.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    The case of the UK teacher(s) were known, and discussed here previously - but in fairness, it is a very long ongoing thread at this stage.

    But no stone has been left unturned!

    (edit) there have been two cases of UK teachers - in the case of Joshua Sutcliffe, he was sacked again, from another school, before now being struck off.

    (edit) the other UK teacher was Kevin Lister.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,652 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Thought he had done something daft again.

    Nope, just someone thinking it was over pronouns and not his actions…again.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    At this stage it's late in the game and pretty much everyone here understands the legal issues, so to save us time explain how this relates to contempt of court….



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    Well, in fairness, I think that the fact that Joshua Sutcliffe has lost his appeal and been struck of as a teacher in the UK is topical, even if it isn't Burke specific.

    Mr Sutcliffe’s lawyers argued the Teaching Regulation Agency’s (TRA) order was an “unjustified interference” with his rights of freedom of speech and religion.

    But Mr Justice Pepperall said there was “no merit” in the argument that his human rights had been interfered with.

    The judge said Mr Sutcliffe failed to “understand or accept the harm that he caused vulnerable children in his class”.

    He said Mr Sutcliffe did not accept "that his right to manifest and express his religious convictions might have to be balanced against his professional duties to treat children with dignity and respect and to safeguard their wellbeing".

    The Burkes might want to take note.

    Post edited by Ezeoul on


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Having read the UK news report about the case there, I approached Burke's behaviour at the school here prior to any civil court proceedings here against him in comparison to the approach taken in the UK by the UK teacher licencing authority there that if we had such a Govt section or quango here in charge of issuing licences to teachers that it might have been possible to do so here with Burke. I am not finding fault with officialdom here as all the action was initiated by the Burkes, with others having to react to their activities.

    The UK Court merely [AFAIK] ruled on the issue of the legality of the withdrawal of the UK TEACHERS licence after he appealed against the authority taking action against him over his behaviour at the UK school he had been employed at. Things were handled differently there and never got to the level of court action here with Burke and his family, a much more sensible approach to reining in a loose cannon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 940 ✭✭✭BK5


    Schools are due to be opened in a months time, why has his termination not been finalised?

    Surely it's a formality at this stage, in my opinion this should have been put to bed the week he was realised from prison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    No idea.

    It's up to WHS to arrange the Disciplinary Appeal Panel hearing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,072 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Unless that teacher (a) verbally assaulted his principal in public (b) repeatedly entered the school premises without authorisation when suspended, there is nothing comparable to Burke's situation apart from the hatred of transgender people.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,582 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    There is clear non-acceptance, but I’m not sure where you are getting the the hatred from.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    AFAIK, aside from having a direct confrontation with the student concerned about their changing gender identity, the UK teacher went on national TV, identified the student publicly and used it to confirm his stance. The court report covers what he did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,062 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I mean, not accepting somebody for who they are seems pretty hateful, no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,582 ✭✭✭✭Dav010




  • Registered Users Posts: 35,072 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,582 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    it isn’t sugarcoating , he does not accept transgenderism based on his religious beliefs, but he has illustrated no hatred for transgender people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    There is no hatred of transgender people by Burke, although it is true that he doesn't believe in the ideology of transgenderism, which is fair enough ….

    I wouldn't go along with it either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,109 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    So just to be clear, you don't believe that transgender people exist?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 23,639 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords




  • Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭scottser


    I bet Hamsterchops is standing outside your gaff right now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Will this circus ever end.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/josiah-burke-family-facebook-ads-enoch-burke-tds-cliips-6450558-Aug2024/



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,036 ✭✭✭Ezeoul




  • Registered Users Posts: 940 ✭✭✭BK5


    Gave Facebook/Meta 30 grand in advertising revenue. At least we know where Enoch's wages, in other words our money has been going.

    Absolute farce.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,109 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's very unlikely that this advertising spend is being funded directly by the family.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,582 ✭✭✭✭Dav010




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