Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

How come we never hear of any doping cases with women's amateur boxing? A female amateur boxer failing a test for taking testosterone would be unbelievably rare. They are already muscular enough and wouldn't need any extra help to win a 3 x 3 minute fight. Many bouts are very technical and don't even require the landing of heavy punches….knockouts or stoppages are a total rarity in these amateur fights.

I've also said "she" and "her" more than once, so I don't know what you think that proves.

My position is that there is a doubt as to their sex, and that this is unacceptable, because no woman should be even potentially be put up against a man if she has not given informed consent to fight a man. Telling her that it's all grand because they've checked passports and that her opponent is probably a woman is just not good enough.

Is there something wrong with that position?

I asked why you keep referring to them as male when you've admitted their sex is still unconfirmed. You haven't answered my question. Are you going to answer the question?

So reuters has an update on that press conference

https://www.reuters.com/sports/olympics/gender-row-boxers-were-disqualified-world-championships-after-chromosome-test-2024-08-05/

This is the part where the IBA is losing all credibility:

In a long and rambling presentation, Kremlev meandered from personal attacks against Bach to railing against the Paris Olympics' opening ceremony and defending his own fight against corruption."Today we are witnessing the death of female boxing, the corruption of judges. All of these happens when Mr Bach (is) president," Kremlev told the IBA press conference by video link.Kremlev also said tests had shown both boxers had high levels of testosterone, without providing further details. The IBA's doctor Ioannis Filippatos said testosterone had not been tested for.Alun Williams, professor of sports and exercise genomics at Manchester Metropolitan University, said that when considering determination of sex and eligibility it was necessary to look at chromosomes, levels of testosterone and other hormones, as well as the body's response to testosterone."That then is a clinical assessment, which is really very invasive," Williams said. "Simply looking at someone's sex chromosomes ... is incomplete."

So now they are inconsistent with each other if a testosterone test was done and if the athletes levels were high or not, note testosterone levels are something tested as part of the anti doping process in the olympics. And on top of that if a testosterone level was not tested reuters has a quote from a Professor of sports and genomics to point out a test without both testosterone and chromosomes is simply incomplete.

This is from an algerian twitter account so take it with a grain of salt but if the translation of the president is to be believed then he is still touting that both boxers 'could' be transgender, he's very much grasping at any line that will keep the story relevant and support for the IBA

https://x.com/a_charmat/status/1820455382319267849

Yes I saw some of that presser, and it was a mess.

However the IBA don’t have to prove that the two boxers are not male - they are not allowed to release the test results anyway. They have claimed that the reason those tests were carried out was that coaches from other teams had complained - there is enough for there to be a reasonable doubt about their sex.

The two boxers in question release the information this evening and end the speculation. Or the IOC could do more tests. The IOC claim that sex is a private matter is laughable given the existence of sex categories.

And the IOC should never have let this happen in the first place: they should have done as FINA and several other international governing bodies do and brought back sex tests. Women athletes never wanted them removed.

The IOC said there were issues with the original tests the IBA did, the IBA have confirmed they gave the test results to the IOC, so the IOC saying this is viable, they have the results according to the IBA. The IBA press conference is an absolute sh*tshow where they cannot even be consistent on what they tested for or insist they didnt do certain tests which according to medical experts if you didnt do that part then the rest of the test is irrelevent.

And people are screaming at the sideline for the IOC to do something?

WHY?

Its an organization that is practically dead internationally, it has only hosted events in Russia since 2023. It has not been consistent in it's claims, it has turned to personal attacks and cheap press grabs, why is this being treated with so much genuine concern from everyone when it should be seen for what it is, for what it has been from the beginning.

Until a new boxing federation replaces them its going to default to the IOC which doesnt have a policy, as far as I'm aware World Boxing goes off the record book and an anti doping test that includes testosterone test and Imane has passed that twice. Until the IOC chooses an federation like World Boxing or some other currently unknown group or even go back to the IBA (for reasons I cannot imagine) there is no official policy and the IOC have said they are going off record books, if the athletes were accepted at other professional events they will accept them. And both athletes were.

Because it is fundamentally unacceptable in a combat sport for the sex qualification to be merely a document check.

That this has become far more widely noticed and more urgent because of the doubt about two particular athletes is not the fault of the athletes concerned but it was predictable and even inevitable sooner or later.

It’s not as though there have not been controversies in the past in other sports. It’s the fault of the IOC but it needs to be fixed rather than insist that no women are being put at risk “because we say so”.

After years of deflecting questions about her sex and gender, Semenya wants to make one thing clear: she is a woman.

Semenya is not transgender, and has never claimed to be. She writes in the book of being born with a vagina and growing up as a girl. Sure, as she hit puberty she noticed she wasn’t filling out with the usual softness of women in her family (including four sisters). “In this world, we’re all different. We shouldn’t question how we look, or how we speak” – and soon she’s off on an impassioned sermon. “Once you start questioning yourself, you’ll never get an answer. You’ll never know the reason why you have that huge nose or a big forehead. Those are the things that you’re made with! You should embrace them. But, instead of that, people in our society start questioning what women should look like because they want women to look a certain way. That’s the story that’s going around with me.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/oct/28/athlete-caster-semenya-interview-im-a-woman-im-a-different-woman

There's plenty of people in this thread saying that males can give birth and males can have a vagina and uterus so they might well think so.

Again, depends who you ask. The XY chromosome = male brigade are the ones who claim that males can give birth so you'll need to bring it up with them.

… if he fathered children then obviously he's a man and as it happens only men suffer with DSDs as I discovered listening to Maya Yamauchi.

Not only men can have DSDs, but they are sex specific.

What's really truly hilarious in this is the logic being used by Khelif's supporters on here explaining it to all the people who normally don't follow any of this and are being peaked for the first time:

New person: So the women's boxing final will be between two men?

IOC and supporters: Of course not: they're in different weight categories so it wouldn't be fair.

😁

So what is the point in maintaining male and female categories in boxing then?

You’re not seeing it because you’re thinking of strength as knock out power. Which is not the benefit.

You mention speed. Where do you think speed comes from? The ability to shift your whole bodyweight quickly? Muscular power.

“Assuming they are working out in the gym”. Why would they be working out in the gym if being stronger wasn’t a benefit?

Why do weight divisions exist? Why are the sexes split? You’ve already been unable to answer, but worth restating.

Using Khelif as evidence is pretty bad logic.
1. She may not be a biological male, and

2. Somebody losing doesn’t mean they didn’t have an unfair advantage.

Assuming you are are male, you have a strength advantage. If you entered a women’s weightlifting division, would you have won? I doubt it. Your unfair advantage is offset by your skill deficit.

If Khelif is biologically male, the fact they lost to Kellie simply highlights they can’t cut it technically.