Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

That's an entirely different scenario though. You're now proposing that if he shows progress in URC games and it becomes necessary to play him in a CC game, then we should do so. I wholeheartedly agree, what else would we do?

Based on what we saw last season, Foley has quite a way to go to catch up to McGrath, let alone justify benching a fit JGP in a season-defining game.

Very promising intake I think.

Three props coming in - Usanov played well I thought for the 20s in the 6N a year young, and Sparrow and Smyth both look to have prototypical size. I'm very encouraged by Niall Smyth's profile in particular.

Stephen Smyth didn't shine as much for the U20s I thought as I'd hoped. It's obvious he's a relatively recent convert to hooker as his fundamentals still need work, but he has an outstanding physical profile.

At lock, Billy Corrigan is probably the most surprising addition - he's another U19 who played okay for the U20s this year. Looks a little undersized to me, but another good athlete again. Looks potentially more like a 6 long term to me.

Alan Spicer has all the size in the world, but probably wasn't quite as impactful for the 20s at times as people would have hoped. Will be encouraged what they can do with him in a professional S&C environment, as he has sky high potential based on his physique.

No backrowers added, and it's probably the area of least depth now in the Leinster academy. Leinster had no backrowers on the 20s this year.

Coffey is a tidy player at 9 - and a good kicker. Very different style of player to JGP, more of a bigger, physical 9 (like Conor Murray for example).

Caspar Gabriel at 10 is enormously exciting. Relatively rare for Leinster to take players straight out of school into the academy but there are two in this intake (Gabriel and N Smyth). I haven't seen much of him, but supposed to be a really nice footballer and instinctive player. Will be exciting to see him develop.

Of the two back three players added - Hugo McLaughlin has the more polished CV. He looked the best player in the Schools Cup back in 2023, won a cup with Gonzaga and has a very balanced game. Ruben Moloney is rawer and didn't get the chance to create the same impact at U20s level due to injuries, but to me, might be the higher upside player.

All in though a very promising crop with a lot of athletic potential in there.

Based on last season, I really don't think Foley has quite a way to go to catch McGrath at all. I think McGrath was purely picked on reputation or previous bodies of work for the Champions Cup and even more so URC knockouts. Foley was in better form but with limited games to show it.

McGrath had a poor season. His passing was never a strong suit but it deteriorated to a point that is just not acceptable for a scrumhalf in a team like Leinster, and the coaches have to know this. IMO he kept his place at the end of the season because he had the experience, there was serious jeopardy in the knockouts, and Foley's run in had been disrupted by injury. With a clean run of pre-season and URC games I don't expect that to continue. The question for me is if Foley can keep ahead of Gunne for the entire season.

Maybe Luke will show a marked improvement this season, I wouldn't be too confident. If I was betting on how things progress I'd expect him to be quickly phased into a role similar to Ruddock's last season - experienced pro, incredible servant, gives 100% every time, but basically only brought out when the cupboard is bare.

I'm on board with investing in young lads before it's necessary, but I think the idea that this needs to come by taking first team minutes from JGP is over the top. JGP plays as few regular season games as possible and with his continued importance to Ireland this won't change. Outside of must-win Champions Cup games or URC knockouts, he'll basically only be playing for Leinster to be fit for Ireland games, or those must-win Leinster games. From a game time perspective there won't really be fat to trim.

Regardless though, trimming his game time isn't needed. Beyond JGP there'll be plenty other minutes for Foley or Gunne to establish themselves, and a lot of those minutes will be with first choice or strong teams. If they can play the lion's share of minutes as backup to JGP then that will do absolutely fine this season.

On the other hand, if McGrath takes those 2nd choice minutes then it will hamper their development but McGrath's minutes should be the focus here instead of JGPs.

I hope so, we've been a full decade waiting for a decent home-grown SH to follow in McGrath's footsteps, and while he's a decent player, being as good as or better than him is not a huge ask. How far Foley has to go to get there is up for debate, but he's definitely not there yet. I think it's just as likely he'll finish the season as fourth choice as second tbh.

McGrath's passing was always woeful, but I don't think he was as bad as all that. His all-round game is what kept him in the picture for so long and it's still there IMO.

That's great and all, but it was 1 game. His pass has been an issue for years but I just don't think it's as consistently bad and costing us as much as people go on that it is.

If his pass was even at a decent club scrum half standard he would have come on in the Champions Cup final. As good as JGP is you want to be replacing your scrum half on at least 70 minutes IMO, unless you have Dupont.

Yeah agreed on Moloney, think he has the most talent of the back three players in the academy.

He can be good at all the other roles but if his passing isnt good enough then its not much use.

Gunne is the man and the faster he is backed the better.

We are seeing him string together several good quick accurate passes in a row more frequently these days.

Is this what what you meant to say here or was there a typo? Seems inconsistent with the previous points (which I very much agree with)

That makes more sense alright 😂

Completely agree! And for a team like Leinster that wants to play quick, accurate, multi-phase rugby, it is absolutely a hindrance. Gunne looks well able to pass quickly and accurately. I agree with HeyHo above, we need to be backing him asap. Fortunately, I think we will.

Let's all hope so, because this exact claim has been made for a lot of players over the last 10 years and not one of them has backed it up, or gone elsewhere and proved Leinster wrong.

If Gunne is that good, he should have no problem overtaking Foley anyway, and even if he's second fiddle to McGrath at the start of the season, he will get plenty of senior game time. I would also expect him to be going to South Africa in September.

The Paddy Patterson / Nick McCarthy swap doesn't say much for Leinster's judgement of talent at 9

He's looked good enough to be third choice for either province.