Anyone else feel ashamed of getting the Covid shots?

Last December I got the Flu and Covid booster. It was my first winter in about 20 years where I did not get a head cold. This summer a lot of people around me got Covid or Flu's/headcolds(none of this cohort tested for COVID), I came through the whole period where I got a slight temo once or twice but no other symptoms. I do the same next September

And the incident made headlines and health authorities responded with updated advice to not vaccinate in such circumstances.

The last claim I made supporting another poster was a 100% factual truth you said was a lie. I'm not suggesting you're referring to any posters in this thread with your "grand claims" but you're in no position to take the high ground about any group making false claims.

Thats a red herring. Outcomes have been assessed for people being treated for covid in ICU.

Here are articles from a respiratory consultant in NHS and data set from Australia. Worse outcomes for unvaccinated with similar clinical profiles.. average age much younger.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/ng-interactive/2022/jan/28/the-simple-numbers-every-government-should-use-to-fight-anti-vaccine-misinformation

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

If that was the narrative that was being pushed should be trivial for you to find evidence from the time to support it.

But neither of you have provided a shred of evidence to support the notion "they would all be dead". Whatever a winter of death means it is a million miles away from that. And the death rates demonstrate vaccines saved millions of lives - so it would have been seasons of death without them.

Multiple posters have asked you for evidence - you have none.

They have pointed out the other narratives eg that most cases would be mild. Go back to Leos speech announcing lockdown - most cases would be mild.

So when you pick it apart it is just more anti vax nonsense then.

Hundreds of thousands of people needlessly died in the US alone, lives which could have been saved with vaccination. And that includes during Omicron wave.

In Chicago in early 2022... does this count as a winter of death? Well it was for those who died.

"Public health officials have also stressed death rates barely budged among the vaccinated and boosted while surging for older unvaccinated adults. The city reported an age-adjusted death rate peaking at 14 per 100,000 for the unvaccinated around Jan. 22 compared to about 1 per 100,000 for the boosted."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/02/08/omicron-deaths-covid/

Again we're seeing a news article from somewhere else. I asked specifically about Ireland. No evidence has been provided as there is none.

On one hand your using what Leo said to claim most cases will be mild and then you go on to use US data to say it killed hundreds of thousands. We know for a fact the CDC lied, I'd wait a bit longer before putting any belief in that data.

Australia is struggling to come to terms with the amount of injuries caused by the vaccine. That's a fact, 10,000 injured by November 2021 alone and it now looks like employers are on the hook for their no jab no job policy.

I understood completely what op meant with his statement.

To quote Herr Spahn

"By the end of this winter pretty much everyone in Germany will have been vaccinated, recovered or died,"

To quote President Biden

"We are looking at a winter of severe illness and death for the unvaccinated -- for themselves, their families and the hospitals they'll soon overwhelm"

You asked about Ireland, information from Ireland has been provided on the thread. Also, information from other jurisdictions showing similar data as Ireland, but to a lower level. That is valid scientific data. You're unable to engage with the data which discredits your argument. So you try to pick and choose oh I only want data from Ireland.. then when it suits you pick quotes from elsewhere!. Nope, that's not how it works. An entirely self serving standards which has no valid basis.

We have abundant data from multiple jurisdictions establishing the same pattern seen in the headline data from Ireland - vaccinated at significantly lower risk of severe covid, lower risk of needing ICU treatment. Average age of covid admissions significantly lower for unvaccinated.

It doesn't matter that it doesn't come from Ireland. It's a nonsense argument you've retreated to, and not the line of argument anyone actually trying to arrive at the truth would use.

And then to top it off, in the space of a single post, you've already contradicted yourself, and destroyed your own utterly disingenuous line of argument - by trotting out quotes from Biden and elsewhere!

Ah now. Anyone on their 6th vaccine who is in a not a risk group and still masking up needs help. (I assume the poster was young and reasonably healthy as they are in a houseshare). Also good chance they had Covid and were asymptiomatic. Unless they are testing every week to check which is possible considering they seem to be a classic case of OCD. Regarding the Norway study it is fairly clear to me that there were 23 deaths of which 13 were investigated.

He's a professional in a medical field, so I respect his knowledge over your insults. Grow up.

My daughter's long term boyfriend is a doctor and has followed a similar regime of vaccination testing and mask wearing - and its the norm in his field.

In your opinion, which is worth **** to me.

This is personal account of a real actual doctor working in a real actual hospital in Cork.

Hermitage had a mask wearing reinstated at least one occasion I was there in the summer.

That "article" doesn't contract me in the slightest. Did you even read it..

"...The facemask has been used in surgical settings for over a hundred years..."

"...Despite clear evidence that facemasks act to protect the theatre staff from macroscopic facial contamination,..."

"...A randomised control trial investigating the uncertainty surrounding prophylactic antibiotic use in clean coronary artery surgery turned out to be catastrophic – the study had to be terminated early for ethical reasons due to an unacceptable increase in postoperative infection in the placebo cohort..."

In itself it's just a an opinion piece Its not based on a study, just says there's no recent studies, and suggests if there was perhaps opinions would change. That the absence of recent studies is not proof. That either could be true. While ironically giving an example where they do work, and another of catastrophic infection. Thus disproving the entire premise. Ultimately the article talks a lot but says very little.

If you thought this proves some point you're trying (and failing) to make, it doesn't.

One of the largest field studies (already linked to in this thread), covering thousands of people, it was shown that mask use reduced COVID infections by just over 10%. This was after minimal training in use of masks.

Current HSE advice on mask wearing in hospitals;

Face masks

You may be asked to wear a face mask when visiting some health and care settings. The healthcare team will let you know if you need to.

Anyone who wants to wear a face mask to protect themselves and others should do so.

So even the final words have no new insights, (because it's not a study is an opinion piece with no relevant data) and also still does not contradict what I said.

The article does not discuss macroscopic studies. Its simply throws it in. Quite the omission if that was a central argument. Its like a school kid repeating all the key words from a question, but not actually discussing them.

I simply said I've seen masks in hospital first hand. Then said it was ironic to be going to hospital if not believing in medicine.

"Heres an article that says nothing", is in no way a reasoned response to that.

Face mask is such a loose term. I have no doubt a properly worn N95 single use mask would offer protection of sorts. I have been fully trained in donning and doffing PPE. The correct procedure for a N95 is time consuming and complicated. The use of facemasks recently was comical. Those cheap blue masks that were reworn several times. Were filthy and covered in bacteria, Not to mention the cost and pollution generated. A waste of time/money and possibly hazardous to boot.

Covid spreads on aerosols and droplets exhaled from your mouth/nose, anything that limits that reduces the spread. Have a scarf over your mouth/nose, you'll exhale less than if you weren't wearing it. Some masks perform better than others. Remember this doesn't stop the spread, it reduces it (and distances of the particles)

Also, it's 2024, so whenever I come across someone "just asking questions" about masks, 100% of the time it's turned out to be some contrarian denier who is playing games, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt

And to pre-empt any potential quackery

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/03/scicheck-what-the-cochrane-review-says-about-masks-for-covid-19-and-what-it-doesnt/

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-masks-effectiveness-covid-19-5641587-Dec2021/

And as for this

» Clogging up landfill with Covid infected pieces of cloth if they were actually filtering Covid

Well yes, there was mask waste everywhere so I agree with that. However Covid, depending on strain, generally doesn't live more than a few days (depending on surface), so the masks would have been "Covid infected" for very long.

Interesting fact: Masks and social distancing also had the side effect of dramatically reducing cases of seasonal flu, another respiratory disease also spread by, you guessed it, aerosols and droplets from mouths/noses.

I lived in a heavily populated Muslim district of Europe, I only saw half a dozen full Niqab's in years there, the vast majority were open Hijabs, so I guess would depend on the area, the prevalence of full face coverings, how effective they were and other factors. Likewise in e.g. Iran, the majority just cover the hair/neck.

So by the video if you have Covid infection your droplets are being contained within a face mask. Hopefully. So next time you exhale where do all the trapped Covid particles go? You have just condensed them into the fabric of a mask. And you are going to walk around a shop with the mask still on with all these viral particles being spread around. Would you not have been better off letting your cough or sneeze disperse naturally in close proximity without a mask to drag it around a whole supermarket or equivalent.

If you sat through a class on it there is a reason for a class on it so that should be self explanatory.

That's illogical.

It can't be both contained and not contained.

If it's trapped then it's not going to be spread. If it's not trapped, then there's nothing to spread.

I'm not saying that's how it works. But your examples as you've defined here make no sense logically. You've created a logic trap for yourself.

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