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Online reporting of dangerus driving.

  • 08-08-2024 10:12am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭


    Just heard on the news that people can report dangerous driving or mobile phone use on the Garda website. How would this work if I say I saw car 21DXXXX breakng the speed limit? Where's the proof?



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭Allinall


    There won't be proof.

    Specific prosecutions won't come from this, but I presume a database of reports will be kept, and a bigger picture built up.

    I wouldn't like to be the guy challenging a speeding or dangerous driving charge, where the prosecution produces a report that says I have 17 different reports about my driving in their database.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    If you have dash-cam footage and the case goes to prosecution then you may be asked to produce the evidence by Gardai.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Yes, but you can't upload the footage when you make the report, as far as Im aware you can't even tick a box saying you have dashcam footage, so you would wonder how many people do they get back to?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,799 ✭✭✭SteM


    17 different unverified reports? I wouldn't mind being that guy to be honest.

    17th June someone saw me speeding down X road? I wasn't even in the location sir. 20th June someone saw me speeding down Y road? I was sick in bed that day sir. Why are people reporting this? I really couldn't say but perhaps they are people that hold a grudge against me sir. Are they all here in court to give sworn testimony?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭Allinall


    It's the pattern that will count against you.

    The judge will make a judgement.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,746 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    From the portal page:

    ☑ I confirm that I am willing to make a statement and attend Court if required to do so

    It's absolutely not a "patterns-based" system, which I very much doubt would be even admissible in court, and any half-competent lawyer would immediately get it thrown out if it was

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,799 ✭✭✭SteM


    The judge has to make a judgement based on law, not unverified reports.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    There are also magic things like traffic cameras at certain junctions so they might be able to go & check them. I'm all for it. There's a particular junction off the m50 that I travel on & there's often a queue to turn left coming off it. The amount of people who go up the right turn only lane on the outside & then turn left at the top around the traffic island is nuts. No one turning left should need to look right at that junction as it's lights controlled & there should be nothing coming from the right let alone another vehicle who couldn't be bothered waiting. I know there are traffic cameras on that junction so if people were able to report it, the Gardai would be able to check back on them to see if it happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Sadly not, I don't know why there's not a Dash-cam portal seeing as they ask for it a lot after incidents you see in the news, though if they contact you about an online report you can give any evidence you have in support of your claims..



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,843 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    As it is, as I understand, trafficwatch is just the first triage step anyway. You ring trafficwatch and you still need to go to a station and make a sworn statement, and I can't see this being any different. It's not as if this online portal will take your word and automatically spit out a court date for the accused.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    How long do people keep their dashcam footage for?

    I can see it happening that they ring you up after 6 weeks asking for your dashcam footage but its already been written over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 628 ✭✭✭Summer2020


    there’ll be no “pattern”.
    it won’t even be mentioned in court as you can’t bring up unverified evidence.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,843 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    You'd be some plonker to report an incident to trafficwatch and not save the relevant footage...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    I guess if there's an incident you'd keep it. Some Dashcams have cloud storage accounts so could be kept indefinitely..

    Knowing the speed of reporting things like this to the Gardai I would say 6 months+ would be more realistic before they'd contact you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    It could be a good thing - biggest challenge is wading through the reports to find an incident that will hold up in court - a lot of time wasting for little return - I don’t think it should be used to prosecute minor infringements though - it’s moving too much towards a big brother society and also it’s absolving Gardai from their responsibility to effectively police the roads.

    I can see “hero’s” in their droves driving around looking for the slightest traffic law infringement and uploading reports daily - I don’t believe that’s a good thing at all but we are where we are- this technology isn’t going to go away but I can see that we’re moving towards a much more monitored society .

    Id prefer to see a push and a priority on neighbourhood watch especially in rural areas- encouraging the reporting the suspicious movement of vans and such like - and more importantly then the Gardai actioning such reports -it’s very easy to slap a fine on someone who drove over a continuous white line when you have dash cam footage - what about capturing burglary gangs? Priorities are wrong here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,379 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    The judge has to assess the sworn evidence of the persons in front of them to decide if they are credible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    But how long would you keep it?

    Knowing the speed of reporting things like this to the Gardai I would say 6 months+ would be more realistic before they'd contact you.

    Well exactly! Do you keep it indefinitely?



  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭FazyLucker


    I can see this being like the guy living beside the airport who is responsible for 95% of the noise complaints. Basically a recipe for time wasters.

    I'm all in favour of reporting serious breaches with verifiable footage to AGS but "Here, PJ, a lad overtook me dangerously 151LXXXXX is his number plate", to which the response from 151LXXXXX is "I overtook him perfectly safely".

    Like seriously have you ever heard a more braindead waste of Garda time than this rubbish.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Gardai/Police can't be everywhere and it's not an "either or thing" ignoring casual law breaking such as speeding/dangerous driving will only normalise it and make it socially acceptable, drink driving was the norm and now it's totally abhorrent to everyone, the same way mobile phone use should be now and if reporting it using online portals is the way to address these issues then I'd say most people are all for it..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,799 ✭✭✭SteM


    The poster never said that, they said

    Specific prosecutions won't come from this, but I presume a database of reports will be kept, and a bigger picture built up.

    I wouldn't like to be the guy challenging a speeding or dangerous driving charge, where the prosecution produces a report that says I have 17 different reports about my driving in their database.

    So according to the poster there won't be 'persons in front of them', the judge will be using reported and unverified driving patterns. That's what I was replying to.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,093 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    This is going to be fantastic, given I have had someone dawdling below the speed limit, flash their lights and honk their horn when I overtook them with oncomming traffic about 1km away, in dry bright weather on a dead straight section of road where overtaking was permissable.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,843 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    well, as long as it takes so? i've photos i've had on my computer for 20+ years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,771 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    I'm in the process of backing up my home directory to transfer to a new laptop. Some stuff I'm taking, some stuff I don't care about. The hypothetical Dashcam footage from 6 months ago that no-one ever got back to me about? Meh, I'm not bothered keeping it. I'd imagine I'd not be in the minority on this one.

    I have pictures I care about that are older than 20 years.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,843 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    well, that'll prune you out of the process handily enough. if keeping a video longer than six months is too much hassle for you, it's a lot less hassle than having to turn up in court (which you're asked to confirm your willingness to do at the start).



  • Registered Users Posts: 896 ✭✭✭crl84


    Can't currently.

    There has been talk about a facility to upload footage when making a report.

    Plenty of insurance companies already have this facility when dealing with claims. And it's trivial from a technical point of view to set it up, I could do it in an hour. I assume it's something to do with relevant legislation/data protection/f- all will from the Gardai, as to why it's not set up yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 635 ✭✭✭Yeah Right


    To the best of my knowledge, this new portal is, essentially, an extra method of initial reporting of [insert dangerous driving offence here].

    At the moment, you ring traffic watch, log the incident, they give you a reference number, then they reach out to you for whatever evidence you have (photo, video, testimony, whatever), and then you never hear from them again until the case has been resolved, unless it goes to court, at which point you may have to confirm your testimony or confirm the footage is true etc.

    With the new portal, you don't have to ring anyone, you go online and log the incident, then everything else follows as if you had rung them.

    As usual in Ireland, it's a ridiculous non-solution to a huge problem. Why you cannot submit your evidence at the time of logging the incident is a mystery to everyone but the incompetent idiots who oversee this type of thing. Completely ridiculous.

    You should be able to submit videos etc. from the beginning. And it should be for pretty much any driving offence. Guards take a look and contact the driver….."here's a video of you crossing a solid white line / overtaking a cyclist unsafely / parked on double yellows or the footpath / breaking a red light / tailgating / swerving across three lanes to get to your exit……..that'll be a €180 fine and 3 points on your licence, unless you can prove it was someone else driving your car on that day".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Those reports wouldn't be admissible in evidence. The main thing would be to allow Gardai to intercept badly driven vehicles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,379 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    but they are wrong; there’s no provision for random emails to be presented as evidence. The individual would have to be asked to do so on affidavit or in person.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,799 ✭✭✭SteM


    So you agree with me, perhaps you should have responded to them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 296 ✭✭FazyLucker


    AI might render it useless though because I am sure it can easily add your car in to a video of my dashcam……

    What would be a much more effective solution would be if some insurance company offered a much reduced premium but you had a "black box" style thing in the car whereby they log the speed, etc of the car at all times. If you were speeding at the time of an accident or were looking at your phone for example, your insurance is null and void. If the log is not working, your insurance is null and void.

    Driver behaviour would improve massively IMO if their insurance was an issue. Not sure how it would monitor mobile phone use admittedly bar it was a camera on the driver……but I'm sure there is a technical solution to it as well.



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