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Random EV thoughts.....

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Just to be sure I've got this down right, you need to go 400km with at most one charging stop, ideally as quick as possible?

    Pretty sure the EV6 would cover around 300km on the coldest day of the year, and probably charges fastest out of everything

    Model 3 LR is another good option, particularly if there's Superchargers en route.

    Another potential is an ID.4 77kWh, there should be a few good deals on second hand ones at the moment. As long as they've been upgraded to the latest software the charging speed has improved

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Back to tyres, I just checked my tread depth and there's generally over 4mm on every tyre. I'm kind of tempted to leave the current set on until next year

    They're 3 years old and have 30,000km on them. I reckon they've a bit of life left in them yet

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭mr chips


    The total trip is about 440km, starting in NI, down the M1, onto the M7 and finishing in Limerick city. I know it's unlikely that any EV I can afford would do that in winter without a charging stop, but the further I can travel from 100% and the shorter the amount of time spent charging on the way, the better.

    I know the route is one of the best served with ultra-fast charging points along the way - J14 Mayfield seems like one of the best options for a top-up, and I think Portlaoise/Midway are becoming more viable in terms of 100+ kW charging with more than one or two chargepoints. Journey time on the way out is the key factor - the return journey isn't time-bound in the same way, but the outward trip that generally takes around 4 and a half hours in an ICE needs to take no more than 5 hours in an EV including time spent charging.

    At the moment, while a Kia EV6 would be a slightly more expensive option than a Model 3 (some of which are available on this leasing scheme with pretty minimal mileage), more importantly it looks to me as though the Tesla with heat pump would in any case be capable of covering the greatest amount of the outward trip in the worst conditions, i.e. a cold, wet and windy day in December/January, with the least amount of time spent charging en route. Given that it's a trip that happens multiple times a year, the cost - not just in time, but also financial - is also a part of the equation, albeit not the most important factor. But adding 20% to a Tesla vs adding 40% to a Kia every time would be a measurable difference. That said, a 2 year old EV6 will have a better overall warranty than a Tesla of the same age and that could well be of greater value.

    So I'm leaning towards the Model 3 (lease cost around £350stg/month for a 2-3y.o.), but would be glad to be told of any alternatives I may not have considered, or reasons why I should consider Car XYZ instead!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    Not sure what the aversion to public charging is or the time you think it takes. It's always best to charge on DC at the lowest SoC possible.

    As an example, last week I left my house with 100% on board. Drove 70km to Carlow where I had a meeting. Since I was going to be parking up for three quarters of an hour or so, I parked at a charge point and left Carlow with 96% on board. Drove to Bray in Wicklow and then from there to Galway docks where I had to pick something up. Stopped for a literal splash and dash to 25% at Galway plaza as the GOM was saying I'd have 3% at my destination. Maybe 7 minutes, but probably less.

    After Galway docks had an hour to kill before meeting my son for dinner, so charged up on the Brite chargers in the shopping centre there (good value at 51c btw, but make sure you're not sharing the charger, otherwise it's half speed). Took about 35 minutes to get to 80%, but 10 minutes of that was half speed because I was sharing. Had a coffee while I was waiting. It nearly took as much time to get from there to The Huntsman (Galway traffic is inexplicable).

    Then drove home. Stopped at Carrickmines for another splash and dash - 8 minutes there to get to 38% from 12%. 680km in 8hrs 20 minutes at an average 85kph. I clocked 100% battery at just over 350km.

    Was doing motorway speed limit + VRT + VAT most of the way. Polestar 2 Performance 78kWh.

    TL:DR Public charging on a long trip is a breeze if you manage your stops properly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    That's certainly a journey, I wonder would the Model 3 make it to the Supercharger in Birdhill before needing a top up. If it can then I'd say it's the clear winner given supercharger costs are usually the cheapest with a Tesla

    I think you've the right idea that you'll need to consider the fast charging costs with a regular journey like that. However I would also balance the overall savings in fuel against the added time for charging.

    For example say it added an extra 30 mins each way and you did the trip 12 times per year. So the cost of using an EV is 12 hours of your life

    If an EV saved €3k on fuel per year (just a guess) that works out to €250 per journey to Limerick. I know that time charging can feel like time wasted, but if you're €250 richer for it then it should take some of the pain away

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭mr chips


    Time is a factor because on the outward leg, I have to arrive on time, every time - I need to know that if I leave by 10am, I'll be there by 3pm. It's a regular long trip, usually 9-10 times a year and sometimes more, and I have it down to a fine art in the ICE - I generally stop about 15 minutes and no more for a comfort/refuelling break and driver swap. I also take other long trips as my parents are some 300km away, but this particular trip is the most frequent one and also the one which requires punctuality. I have long wanted to switch to EV, and that's finally on the horizon now - but I have to be able to complete the outward leg of this specific trip without significant hold-ups either due to time spent plugged in or time spent queuing to charge. This is me trying to settle on the right car for my use case - something people are often advised to do in this forum! 😎

    @the_amazing_raisin - it's not a case of "oh charging takes so looooong!" - I've already timed refuelling/comfort stops in the ICE many times and between standing there filling the tank, paying for fuel & tolls, going for a slash and getting back out to the car, it always takes 10-15 minutes anyway - more if the place is busy or understaffed. So the time needed to charge an EV shouldn't be much greater - it's not an issue so long as I know I can arrive, plug in, get what I need in 20-25 minutes and hit the road again. For the return journey home, or for a different trip visiting family etc where arrival time isn't as crucial, it doesn't make any difference if I have to wait an extra 15-20 minutes even just to start charging - but the outward leg of this specific trip can't be delayed.

    I'm absolutely with you on the cost/benefit analysis - already figured out that between fuel (by far the biggest cost), maintenance & repairs etc, the cost to run the old ICE is averaging over £300 per month. We have solar at home and are planning more in the medium term, so outside of these long trips the cost to fuel an EV would be reduced to negligible amounts. So switching from running a 17 year old Mondeo that we own outright to leasing e.g. a 2-3 year old Model 3 will cost an average of just £65 per month extra. That's a no-brainer for me, but actually getting the leasing part done is a tedious process because it involves public sector bureaucracy. 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    From what you're saying you would need a car with a very good charge curve. The ID4 has an excellent one iirc. I think it stays above 100kW to about 75% and at 150kW to about 35-40%. At 150kW you'd be getting about 25% in ten minutes. If you were getting a minimum of 300km from a full charge, that's an extra 75km in 10 minutes. >100km in fifteen.

    If you're worried about chargers in use, check the apps as they will tell you charger status in real time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,131 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    My 2c

    Since you are so time sensitive on that journey I think you need to lean towards Tesla, not only because of charging speeds/curves etc… but mainly because of access to the superchargers.

    I dont know where you are coming from but it must be up way north of NI for the total journey to be 440km to limerick so one option would be to go to Enfield supercharger. Thats probably about 280km's from your starting point? A <20min stop there and then another ~180km's to your destination.

    That route will be reliable and consistent in terms of charger access and charge speed. You can also stop on the M1 supercharger.

    You have multiple options on the way home but you said thats less of an issue anyway in terms of time.

    Enfield is open to non-Tesla's too but some of the other sites are not.

    Pulling into somewhere like Mayfield is a lottery as to whether you'll get on the charger or not on arrival so I think you need to give extra weight to getting access to the supercharger network with the Tesla.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 622 ✭✭✭mr chips


    Thanks for the replies folks. Yes, I'm very close to the north coast, so it's a bit of a trek alright. Enfield would be a slightly awkward one for this trip, I think - taking a more direct route there via Navan/Trim would mean going on a number of minor roads which are pretty crap, in my experience, so I'd have to either go from and then back to the M50 in order to continue on the M7, or else go to Enfield from the M50 and carry on to Limerick via Tullamore-Nenagh. If I were in a Tesla, Castlebellingham is about 170km away so it could be worth using that as the recharge point, even though the battery would probably only have emptied to around 55% at that point (maybe not even as low as that). The remaining distance from there would be around 270km, which might be manageable on an 80% charge. How long would a Model 3 with a warm battery take to charge from 55-80% at a supercharger?

    @CMOTDibbler - speaking of the ID4, I just saw last night that a three year old 77kWh ID4 1st with around 65k km on the clock may become available for a fair chunk less per month than any Model 3 I have on my shortlist - £290/mo vs £350/mo. £290 would actually be slightly less of a monthly outlay than the average cost of running an old 2.0 diesel, so effectively a free car! So it's definitely a contender right now. I'd welcome views on which one is easier to live with, less likely to develop out-of-warranty faults etc (that's a big plus in favour of a Kia EV6, btw).

    Also - I know the likes of ABRP, ZapMap et al will be useful, but I'd welcome input from anyone who regularly charges along the M1 and M7 and can give an idea of which places are the least likely to have queues on a Saturday afternoon, broken chargers etc. Interestingly, putting the trip into ABRP for all three cars, its estimate is that the Model 3 would be quickest, with just a 5 minute charge at J14. The EV6 would be next quickest, with a 10 minute stop at Ionity Kill South, while the ID4 would need a 19 minute charge, also at J14. That's with the seasonal weather, i.e. now - can't see a setting to change it to a typical cold, wet and windy winter's day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    If you're looking at an ID.4 1st then you'll want to be sure the software is updated to 3.2

    As well as making the UI a lot more liveable, it unlocks the faster charging speed of 135kW

    However, you only get the really good charging curve if you plug in below 15% and with a warm battery. Anything over that and you'll be punished with a slower charging curve

    The UI in the ID.4 is...fine. It isn't going to win any awards for user friendliness, but it does all the things it needs to do reasonably well

    VW have their own Autopilot called Travel Assist. It's not available in the 1st but is in the 1st Max, as well as some other subsequent trims (Tech and Max I think). It's basically ACC with auto steering, so it'll just follow the lane and bit crash into whatever is in front

    I will say from driving all over Ireland, France and the UK with it, it's absolutely brilliant. I would highly recommend it or something similar for long drives

    I still think the Tesla edges out the VW in this case, but it's still a possible contender

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    EV Database has this charging curve for the ID4 1st from Fastned. Is this not correct?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    It's correct but in many cases you'll only get that curve if you plug in below 15% SoC

    If you plug in at say 40%, then you won't get 125kW from the graph, you'll get around 75kW

    That's been my experience at least, pretty sure I was being limited by the car

    For example I recently got 18kWh in 15 mins from a Supercharger. Quick maths gives an average of 72kW. As I recall I plugged in somewhere around 30-40% after about an hour of driving on a warm day

    I've gotten 125kW exactly once (back when that was the limit) from an Ionity charge after driving for 3 hours and plugging in around 10%

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭CMOTDibbler


    That seems wrong. Not doubting you, but just seems wrong that the car won't join the charging curve at the SoC. I know those charge curves are derived from a ~0% SoC up, but any time I've plugged in my car, I've always hit the curve exactly as the graph would suggest based on my current SoC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Seems to be a VW thing, other ID owners can probably chime in with their experience

    I guess whoever designed it always waits until their fuel light is on before filling up 🤷‍♂️

    They seem to have dramatically improved it with the newer generation of cars because they now have a button to precondition the battery. The cars will also precondition when navigating to a charger (the thing they were supposed to do in 2020) and will display the max available charging power, taking the guesswork out

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,367 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Sounds like a poorly thought software. Toyota updated theres to improve the curve.

    VW seem to be reluctant to support the software in the cars for long enough. Your phone will get updates longer maybe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Apparently the current version of software shipping on cars (4.x) is already EOL and Cariad are working on version 5

    And then Cariad will probably be shuttered in favour of the joint venture with Rivian

    It's Windows ME all over again 🤣

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭Gerrymandering reborn


    Saw an e3008 today WTF are they deliberately makings EVs ugly

    I genuinely thought it was a Chinese knock off the 3008,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Fastnet charge curves are best case ideal curves. If your battery is hotter or cooler than ideal , typically 30 Celsius, then rate will be slower. As battery ages the speed may drop too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,640 ✭✭✭obi604


    chancing me arm here.I am in Waterford city until Wednesday visiting for a few days . Could anyone lend me a granny/3 pin charger with a type 2 connection?

    (Like a gobshite, I bloody forgot mine at home, was cleaning car last week and forgot to put the granny charger back in) 🙄🙄

    Post edited by obi604 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Fiat are to have integrated charging cables, starting with the Grande Panda next year. Obviously only for AC due to cooling issues, and even at that, only up to 7.4kW. There will be another normal charging port for DC up to 100kW. I hope it also allows faster AC or the whole thing seems a bit of a waste.

    https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/technology/fiat-integrate-charging-cables-electric-cars



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'm struggling to figure out whether that's a good or bad idea. My instinct is bad idea, seems like it causes more problems than it fixes

    Honestly an easily accessible storage box for the cables would be plenty. Somewhere they won't be blocked in by a boot full of shopping, like perhaps under the bonnet 😉

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,367 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You might be right. I assume it's just easier. I've seen it demo'ed and it looked convenient. Pros and cons as you say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭rodneytrotter15


    @Gumbo appreciate your thoughts on fitting regular tyres to a Model Y or do they have to be the EV specific tyre ?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I had non EV tyres fitted to a Nissan Leaf (Michelins) and non EV tyres fitted to a Model 3 (Pirelli). On the Leaf, noticed no difference but that was a L24 back a good few years ago. On the M3 I noticed it a bit louder than other M3’s I was in at the time but there’s so many circumstances that could have caused that (Fremont built V MIC) etc

    Id Have no hesitation fitting non EV tyres to an EV once the load rating and Speed rating are matched to OEM figures, 92Y for example.

    In theory you may suffer less range or louder drive but That’s in factory testing conditions. On the road with Irish surfaces, radio on, kids battling in a royal rumble in the back seats, would you notice?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I'm going to second this, got non EV tyres fitted to the Leaf years ago. There was maybe a 5% increase in consumption for a month or two and then I think the tyres wore in and lost a little bit of rolling resistance

    There was a corresponding slight increase in road noise which again disappeared after a few weeks (or else I just stopped noticing)

    From what I can tell there's a trade off between grip and efficiency with tyres. Increase one and you start losing the other

    Personally I'd favour more grip since (as someone put it very succinctly earlier) the tyres are literally the only point of contact with the road. Generally when you need good road grip, you REALLY need it and I'm willing to sacrifice some range in exchange

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Good news for anyone travelling on the M1 and looking for somewhere for the kids to burn off some energy, Applegreen have significantly improved the play area in the Lusk service stations

    Looks like the bathrooms got redone as well so they're less of a horror show

    Bad news is there's still a single charger at each service station, so you could end up with plenty of time to spare if there's a queue 🙄

    Is it too much to ask to get good facilities and good chargers in the same place?

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,367 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The M1 is one of my few regular long distance journeys. Apple Green used to be my go to stop. But no longer due to the lack of charging. My last time there someone was charging to 100% heading to Limerick or such. I'll not be stopping there in future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,614 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Yeah it's very frustrating, there's Ionity in City north but that has nothing going for the service station

    There's also Clonsaugh coming soon hopefully, but again not a place you'd want to spend any amount of time there

    The Applegreen sites at least have some decent facilities (because TII probably forced them to) but a single charger per site

    Unless you've a Tesla of course

    If Applegreen would speed up their rollout, and increase the scope it would improve things a lot. At this stage 2 chargers per site isn't going to be enough when 5-6 is becoming the norm

    And Applegreen don't even have 2 chargers per site 😬

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,367 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    City north is too close for me leaving Dublin heading north ish. Still there are some decent options further north just off the M1 on my route. Now I know to avoid AG I can plan around that..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,367 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    When I got my EV there were a mixed set of no name tyres but decent reviews. One deformed (lowest load rating one) So I replaced them all with higher load rating sporty tyres. Definitely noticed a slightly stiffer ride and a slight increase in noise. The other half didn't notice. Ramps probably the only place I notice it.



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