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Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

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Comments

  • #752
    pah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,549 ✭✭✭pah


    Eh, I said I "might" and I don't hate the car obviously, just can't stand the figurehead associated with it. But then he's not the company.



  • #753
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479847#Comment_122479847

    Exactly. Tesla isn’t musk and musk is not Tesla. Some will refute this but let them be.

    If you like the car buy it, if you don’t, there’s others like BYD, Hyundai etc

    I wouldn’t give a toss what others think when driving a car. That’s their problem, not yours.

    Post edited by Gumbo on


  • #754
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,052 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479847#Comment_122479847

    Like most, full of hot air and nonsensical bluster. We're all guilty at times but being like "oh i might cancel" but in reality it doesnt matter.

    Musk is a fool, tesla service is awful, but they are still the best EVs by a mile.



  • #755
    pah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,549 ✭✭✭pah


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479937#Comment_122479937

    I think the fact that the actions and behavior of the company CEO even causing me to stop and think about my decision at all is kind of mad, no? What other company exists where this might be an issue?



  • #756
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480117#Comment_122480117

    VW following their emissions scandal.
    BMW when they were involved in the child labour market.
    Apple with the Chinese sweat shops. Mercedes when they also cheated many bus drivers with their emission scandals.
    Nissan with their embezzlement/fraud.
    collective fraud between Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Mazda and Yamaha.

    That’s the top of my head, without a google search. If you look, you’ll find a reason not to buy any brand. Ditch the phone, internet, or batteries and everything else made with questionable processes if you want to avoid any of that perceived stress.

    Post edited by Gumbo on


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  • #757
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,023 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479912#Comment_122479912

    The difference is he could legitimately run it into the ground if he doesn't get ousted, not good for owners. It's presently a piggy bank for his other endeavours.

    He needs to go, stat.

    I think it would have an extremely bright future without him.



  • #758
    JOL1
    Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭JOL1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479847#Comment_122479847

    Pragmatism….now we know how you feel , a lesson for all not to confuse the car with personal opinions. You are buying a car not making a political donation



  • #759
    SchrodingersCat
    Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭SchrodingersCat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480583#Comment_122480583

    You are indirectly making a political donation to Trump through Musk and his shares in Tesla 😀



  • #760
    pah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,549 ✭✭✭pah


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480367#Comment_122480367

    Yeah, plenty companies with questionable morals. It's not the same though is it? Any other CEO's directly influencing world events/politics?



  • #761
    JOL1
    Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭JOL1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480604#Comment_122480604

    Nonsense …stretching these arguments too far.



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  • #762
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122480685#Comment_122480685

    Yes, I’d say VW, BMW, Audi and Mercedes have a lot of political pull in Germany alright.

    Funny enough, DT’s biggest donor appears to be a banking family of Irish descent, The Mellon Family, and I don’t see Musks name on any donation charts…..just yet. All the media is “plans to donate”’. Will he follow through on it?



  • #763
    System
    Administrators Posts: 382 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭System


    Mod Note: Posts moved here from Tesla Talk thread discussion on how Elon Musk as CEO is impacting the brand should be in this thread.



  • #764
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,576 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479912#Comment_122479912

    As the largest shareholder he owns 20.% outright. Not sure how much he owns by proxy if his mother and brother.
    he is the CEO.

    Tesla is Musk



  • #765
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,023 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122479937#Comment_122479937

    just on the last point, No they are not the best ev's by a mile. We need to cut the fluff there. Are they the most effiecient EVs ? Most definitely they make the best motors. Are they the best drive and handling ? no. Are they the fastest ? no. Are they the best interior? No. Do they have the best software? Still debatable depends on what that means to you. They have great stuff within their SW user experience, they also have poor stuff in it too. Do they have the best looking EVs ? again subjective but i think most would say.. 'good' yes 'the best' - no.

    So on even the most basic view on them as an EV they arent the best, but they exceed in some areas. That would be a more honest summary of their vehicles.



  • #766
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,023 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Someone mentioned earlier about people saying they wouldnt buy a tesla then later said they were never buying one. I dont recall anyone in this thread or site saying they were never buying one to begin with.

    Myself and the better half were moving to EV since about end of 2022, We still had alot of life left in our Volvo, but were moving for something more fuel friendly and long term focused. So were 100% buying a model Y. but over the last 2 years this flute has increasingly got up my back and I dont like his politics or his interference in it both domestically in the US and even our own country. I started looking elsewhere and waited for the market to correct. We paid more than the model Y and went elsewhere for our car.

    Thats not an anecdote, i would have bought one. I think the man is an active threat do global affairs. His most recent interference in the UK now only confirms for me that he is a dangerous narcisist with obvious mental health problems and a short fuse. He is clearly self medicating and acts on any false data that confirms his immediate bias then promotes it.

    Im not helping that mans fortunes by handing him tens of thousands of my money. And id also be really highly concerned of the value of the car as we have seen him shaft existing tesla owners. I hope the brand surives his reign. Hes the idiots version of intelligence.

    I hold out hope hes ousted



  • #767
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,052 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122482781#Comment_122482781

    I suppose best by a mile is subjective rather than objective. We bought new EVs in 222 and 232, from Tesla and Ora/GWM respectively. When buying the Tesla there was no comparison for what we wanted - supercharger network, app control, navigation integration and charge display (ie the trip planner), and the way the car reacts as it's getting low on charge. When buying the Ora new teslas were much more expensive and there wasnt any other realistic option at the price point.

    Now, 2 years after we bought the 3 (our third T in total), there are indeed more viable options both in terms of capability and at the price point of the current tesla cars. For instance, when I bought the 3 I only cross shopped against other Teslas. Now if I am to buy a replacement - probably in another 12 months due to the price cuts - I'd be cross shopping with Mercedes, Audi, Kia EV9, etc. The competition is getting better. But (and only IMHO) Tesla is still the best package combining range, efficiency, native superchargers, and cost for what you get.

    Much as I dislike the sight or sound of Elon and don't agree with most of his conspiracy theorist nonsense, he's not Tesla. He's the current CEO, not the founder and it's not a private company. I listen to music where I hate the artists political views for instance, separate the art from the artist. Elon has so much money that I doubt he cars about my 900 quid a month for my model 3!



  • #768
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,619 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122482734#Comment_122482734

    I think it's more than that, Elon is the face and representative of Tesla as well as being the CEO

    I can't think of any car company where the CEO gets more face time. I don't even know who the CEOs of Stellantis, Ford, Toyota or many manufacturers are. I only know the CEO of VW because I follow them in the news and I've heard from him maybe 3 times in the past year

    Tesla doesn't have much advertising, and Elon has been shutting down what little they have recently. In many cases most Tesla news comes directly from Elon's Twitter account

    It's almost impossible to think of Tesla without thinking of Elon

    I appreciate that a lot of people can mentally separate him from the company, but he's certainly not making any effort on his own part to distance his personal views from any of his companies

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #769
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,619 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122482781#Comment_122482781

    I think you've hit the nail here, while Tesla enjoy several competitive advantages, there are other areas where the competition is catching up

    They've also given away some of their unique selling points, opening up the Supercharger network being the biggest one. It's certainly beneficial to me as a non Tesla owner to have access to the network, but there were definitely some sour opinions from Tesla owners when it got announced

    Anecdotally, during my one and only experience of using the Supercharger network, I was getting several dirty looks from passing Tesla owners since I was effectively taking out two chargers due to the short cables. I'm going to throw out a viewpoint that some owners are a slightly bitter about the whole experience

    I think they're also losing credibility on the tech side of things. FSD might have been a good selling point back in 2012 when the tech bros were all drunk on the kool aid and thought it would be done in a couple of years. Now it seems to be further away than ever

    So I'm not sure they're the best "by a mile" anymore. By a few yards might be closer to the truth

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #770
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122482734#Comment_122482734

    I guess I’m lucky enough that I can separate the fella from the car. The same way I can separate continental tyres from their Nazi past and concentration camp testing of inmates.

    If we lived our lives based on the running of a company I feel we’d be living in mud shacks and still out hunting or lunch.

    How many people on here have bought continental Tyres? Or a Zeiss Scope/lens? Or use Allianz Insurance (myself included). Some people use morals as their reasoning yet those same morals only extend to Tesla for some strange reason.

    It reminds me very much of the Apple fanboy V Fandroid arguments that were rampant on these forums over 10 years ago.



  • #771
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,619 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Interesting article on Electrek

    https://electrek.co/2024/08/08/tesla-working-through-giant-cybertruck-backlog-pretty-fast/

    So it's looking like a lot of reservation holders aren't turning into eventual buyers

    On one hand, I don't think this is surprising, it's a $100 refundable deposit so I think a lot of people chucked one down on the off chance they decided to buy one

    However, there's a few aspects where you could point the finger at Elon for screwing up

    First is the obvious overpromising and under delivering. The CT is late, significantly more expensive, shorter ranged, less efficient and has fewer features than promised. On top of this there seems to be some significant build quality issues, and also the thing doesn't seem as good at truck stuff than other electric trucks

    Yeah okay, what else is new? But that leads into my second point

    By setting the deposit so low, this created a false sense of demand which could impact them long term. With the 1 million reservation holders Tesla had to assume that there could be a million people looking for Cybertrucks and plan production accordingly

    Now it's looking more like they'll be way over capacity and might have to cut prices, which always looks great for your flagship luxury product.

    If the reservation had been set at something higher, you could argue they'd get a lot fewer reservations but much more of them would turn into real orders

    I don't know if Elon chose the reservation amount, but he definitely knew about it and the potential consequences. I suspect it was a ploy to generate a lot of apparent interest upfront and boost the share price, like seemingly every other decision lately

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • #772
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483326#Comment_122483326

    FSD doesn’t appeal to me in one bit. As a Tesla car fan, I couldn’t give a hoot about it. Supercharging doesn’t affect me. Open them all up but build more locations!

    Tesla were the best EV for a long time. There are better cars now. Albeit for double the price. But they all have compromises. This argument could go around in circles similar to the 320d V Audi A4 argument. Both good cars. One appeals to one and the other appeals to others.

    Take the taycan for example. €100k plus car. Tyres lasting 20,000km and being told that’s good. M3P. Half the price, faster and tyres lasting double the distance, but it ain’t no Porsche.

    Don’t live your life based on what other people think of your car. Their opinion of your car choice is none of your business.

    Enjoy the car you choose 👌



  • #773
    AndyBoBandy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,609 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I hope he's hurting Tesla, and all of his companies, because he's a fcuking prick.

    I have a Tesla over 4 years. He's a psychotic scumbag.



  • #774
    Deregos.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Deregos.


    I'm really beginning to believe that Musk is actually the Antichrist as prophesied in the bible.

    Why wont GAA football fans these days admit Die Hard 5 is muck?



  • #775
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,619 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483508#Comment_122483508

    I had to laugh when I saw that was your 666th post, very well executed! 😂

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #776
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,023 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483261#Comment_122483261

    Hold on a sec there though, Its not conspiracy theory to say Elon is interferring in elections both domestically and foreign. None of that is 'conspiracy' Its entirely factual. He has purchased twitter and removed all moderation, closed down API access to all but specific set of unamed users. He opened community reports to combat false news but his tweets dont have moderation or community notes and he removes them from select accounts.

    He claimed multiple times last year and this year to not support any parties at all, Then setup a Super PAC in the US to provide funding to the republican party. Told people that he was giving 45 Million per month (himself with his own tweets) then claimed later it was fake news (his own tweets which he writes) then later claimed the SuperPAC was true. He amplifies false news on a multiple times daily basis. Just this week he retweeted and commented on a made up Telegraph screenshot article about immigrants in the UK that didnt actually exist (no article) .

    He is a liar (proven) he holds extreme views (proven) He engages in domestic and foreign affairs like this weekly. None of this is conspiracy.

    The man is poison, and hes poison for the company Tesla too, He should be jettisoned. He has literally stolen engineers and funding from Tesla for pet twitter projects. On no basis is that something to be celebrated or lauded. The company could have a bright future but under his tenure it will suffer and is suffering. None of this is conspiracy, people trying to rewrite actual events i am suspicious of, or they really arent bother informing themselves at all.



  • #777
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,023 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483385#Comment_122483385

    I get the need to pretend that this is the same, but its not. You need to follow more about what this guy is up to . He is alot darker and more of a real life threat at all sorts of level, I dont buy this antichrist bull. But he is a dangerous , wealthy person with alot of power influence and also clearly has some form of personality or social disorder. Quite obsessive tendancies.Whats more is its only the last 5 years this has occured. Which indicates hes had some sort of episode.



  • #778
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,052 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483682#Comment_122483682

    Sorry, to be clear, I was referring to what Elon is coming out with as conspiracy nonsense. I can't stand the man. Being critical of what he is doing in politics in europe especially (even in ireland where he praised another nutjob, conor mcgregor!) is IMHO the only realistic and rational position to take.

    Elon has surrounded himself with too many yes men. He needs someone to challenge him. For most men this is a strong woman (or man, if you swing that way), but he doesn't have a great track record there either.

    And… he is 110% hurting the brand at this point.



  • #779
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,619 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483743#Comment_122483743

    This is key, I get that a lot of people can look past Elon's politics and buy a Tesla

    Or perhaps they want an EV and a Tesla is their only practical option for whatever reason

    But there's also a significant chunk of the population who apparently can't, and that includes a lot of people who bought one in the past and would have bought another but are either looking at different brands or sitting on their current car

    Couple this with his recent business decisions and it's hard to see what benefits he's bringing to the brand. Most of what he's come out with recently seems to be designed to pump the stock price rather than push any real growth roadmap

    In many ways he's the epitome of the rot economy that has been the hallmark of the tech industry the past few years

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • #780
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,570 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483707#Comment_122483707

    I’m not pretending anything. I just don’t give a hoot. Simple as that. Selfish. I don’t have a Tesla anymore. I may have next week, or next month or the day a better car for the budget 🤷

    I don’t really care who’s at the wheel to be honest.

    It’s the same form people that ridicule the link between Mercedes, bmw, Audi to the German nazi regime busting that it was 80 years ago. That suits them as it doesn’t directly affect them. The musk fella’s attitude or whatever disorder he has doesn’t affect me at this time so I couldn’t give a crap. That’s not pretending. That’s fact. That’s my narrative and I don’t care what others think of that. Life is too short unfortunately.



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  • #781
    DrPsychia
    Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭DrPsychia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483682#Comment_122483682

    I don't disagree with a single thing you say about Musk. The part I don't understand is why some people boycott Tesla in favour of BYD, which is supporting the CCP.

    Considering, for example, how the CCP suppresses the media and flow of information in and out of China, imprisoning millions of uygurs in "re-education" camps, threatening Taiwan, bullying the Philippines out of their rightful territorial waters, supporting North Korea and Russia. Buying a BYD instead of a Tesla because one hates Musk is hardly righteous, I'd argue it's far worse.



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