2024 DCM Mentored Novices Thread

I’m looking at investing in some of the Rundawear boxers but how do you find the fit? I’ve ones from Decathlon at the moment but they’re not seamless and I have to go a size up from my day to day Penny’s boxers. With them being so expensive don’t want to make a mistake on the size. Thanks for your help

Finally had my first good week in the training plan. By that I mean I followed the plan, completed all the runs and didn't scale back.

Knee pain thankfully has subsided for now, took the plunge on the physio and in fairness he's been excellent so far, correctly diagnosed and has me on the road to recovery.

Really struggled during the week with the heat, felt like there was no air at all and easy runs felt difficult, thankfully this morning's run felt good.

One issue I'm having though and I've had it before, after about 8\9k left leg only is going numb and is quiet painful. I'm definitely not tying the laces too tight.

Going down to the ASICS warehouse in the morning as I think new shoes might do the trick, anyone have any recommendations for a daily trainer?

One of the objectives of the novices thread is to share experiencesand learn from each other, and its great you are calling out your ITband issues. I hope you don’t mind me using you as an example, as this post equally applies to all novices, not just those followingthe Runna plans.

I read up a littleon Runna last week and many of the comments on the likes of Reddit suggested the 2 speed sessions a week was causing a lot of folks to pick up injuries. If you look at both the Hal Higdon and Boards novice plans in the first post, you’ll see there is minimal speedwork, limited in the Boards plan to strides and marathon pace. This is because marathon training is about focusing on developing your body to be able to run a very long distance over many hours. Its not just about developing the large muscle groups but aslo strengthening joints,ligaments, tendons, and all minor supporting muscles, and really really importantly, make your body better at using fat as an energy source. All that needs to be trained and developed, and most of that happens with easy running.

Why do I mention this?

Well, first, I don’t know what paces Runna is suggesting to you, but looking at your runs on Strava, I would have guessed you are aiming for a sub 3:25 marathon finish time. Your original post stated a sub 4 hour is the dream.That is a world of difference. Sub 4 is absolutely doable for you with your Clontarf result, but honestly, most your runs are just way too fast and you are at very high risk of getting injured and not making the start line.

Take last weeks longrun which you ran at a pace of 5:20/km. The bedrock of the weekly long run is to run slow – generally about 40 seconds/km slower than planned marathon pace. This run is specically meant to be run easy so your body can develop and adapt to running long. When you run too fast, those adaptations won’t occur as your body won’t be able to recover and develop before your next session and it will only be a matter of time before something goes pop.

I personally strongly advise that you significantly scale back on your paces and look to drop one of the weekly speed sessions. You missed Mondays session due to injury and yesterdays due to a sports massage, so of the 4 sessions you have planned for the week – only one is listed as easy, but looking at your last Thursdays “easy” run, you ran 12 seconds/km faster than the pace you would need to run the marathon to achive sub-4hr. That’s not easy – its fast. In fact, I’d recommend not running faster than planned marathon pace at all for the next couple of weeks and see if that helps with your recovery.

I’ll also just mention a couple of things from a personal perspective – when I was a novice in 2022 – my long runs were originally run at 6:20/km and as I got more comfortable with the distance later in the plan, that pace increased to about 6:05/km. I often felt when running at 6:20/km pace that it was too slow and it was just way too easy. I stuck with it though as the mentors were adament it was the right pace for a 4 hour marathon attempt, and they were absolutely right. I got way stronger as well as faster. Also, this year I am targetting 3:45 and my long runs now are generally 5:50/km.

You are doing fantastic though and showing the consistency and effort. Focus on getting over the injury and I've no doubt you'll be on for your sub 4hr.

A couple of things in your post:

On Runna: To be honest, the first time I heard of Runna was in this thread but they do seem to get good reviews (maybe not a huge amount as it seems to be realtively new). The main gripe folks have (leaving aside the cost) seems to be the amount of fast paced running, and it seems the concern is really around the marathon plan rather than the shorter distances. I can't seem to find any example plans that lays out paces for the various runs across all weeks, so its really hard to offer any informed opinions on the actual plan.

So, I would just caution folks using the plan to be super careful with doing two speedwork sessions a week and attempting to do the long run at planned marathon pace or quicker. Not saying it won't work for you, just that its a lot of stress and for first time marathoners.

I see someone mentioned Runna has an RPE setting so check that out if it exists and see if it gives you a bit more confidence in the paces.

Another important item in your post: Training for a particular time but planning on running at a slower pace. I get where you are coming from, but you are much better off training for your goal pace (which itself is based off your current ability). You will enjoy the training so much more, you will be less likely to get injured, and your body will be overall stronger and be more ready for the distance come October. If you are not confident in 5:25 pace, and you are looking for sub 4 (5:41 pace), then ask yourself what you gain from training faster? Remember that if you exceed your current abilities, your body won't be able to recover sufficiently for your next round of sessions. You may feel like you can hit the paces and achieve the distances in training, but you will only know when you get to the 20 mile mark whether you have developed the strength to finish strong rather than walk/hobble the last 10k.

And just one final point I'll make - if you read the novice thread from every year, I don't think you will find anyone recommending novices to run faster, but you will find almost endless posts from the mentors advising novices to slow down.

I think for a Novice looking to decide their target MP, it also needs to be remembered that, provided you finish, you will set a PB. Then you want to ask yourself the question, how much is a 5 or 10 mins on your finish time worth risking not finishing, or not even starting?

And another data point on the run slow advice;

For my 1st DCM, my target pace was 5min/km, but long run pace was 6 min/km. I also did very little speed work, some strides, and Marathon Pace sections towards the end of the LSR later in the cycle. (Which I think is in the Boards plan)

This cycle (10 years later), target pace is 4:15/km but long run pace is 5 min/km. Doing speedwork, but my base is much higher at this stage.

It’s natural to feel anxious and wonder if you’re doing enough during the training for your first marathon.I remeber well the the temptation to run too fast, resist. Consistency and patience are key.

If you really feel the need to modify your training then I would recommend you focus on adding slow, easy miles rather than increasing the intensity. For example, if your plan calls for a 1 mile WU, you could extend it to 2 miles at a very easy pace. Similarly, you could extend your very slow CD from 1 mile to 2 miles. If you want to increase the distance of a long run, like running 17 miles instead of 16, that's fine, so long as you run those extra miles at a slow, comfortable pace.

The goal is to build endurance without overloading your body. Consistency over speed

I can speak from experience when I say the Boards Plan will get you to the line in good shape. In 2019 I also dreamed of a sub 4 hour Marathon, I follwed the boards plan with a few extra slow miles and finished in 3:59:22

Its there to had,

Well aware of it. Valencia for me with Dublin as a long easy run. Plan has me down for 35km easy that day so doing Dublin gives me some company and have someone to hand me a bottle of water every so often instead of looping back around or leaving them somewhere